Future of HVAC and industry supply issues.

[bnold]

Like for like would be 50 ton DX built up system including air handler and hot water boiler and new compressor with dryer for Pneumatic Controls and replacing the Johnson Windows 2000nt energy management system.

Basically what we have but not new and not circa 1995.

If I had a clean slate I'm leaning towards 8 package units replacing the Built Up unit capable of 20 air exchanges of which 5 are outside...

The benefit is much simpler and no more all or nothing in terms of future problems... if one package unit has a problem it would only affect one specifics area...

Downside is power requirements, engineering for roof loading, rework existing ducts and lots of HEPA filter banks...

Off the shelf DX units are generally a no go for surgical suites.

The 20ACH plus the required OA % generally requires a unit with reheat (hot gas, electric, HW, NG) to keep RH within range. Then you also need a higher than normal dP fan for pushing through pre-filters and HEPAs.

HEPAs can live in the diffusers in the surgical suite, if the ductwork is as ancient as the system, that’s where I’d want them.



Getting a temp unit setup to meet regulatory requirements in short order is no small task, congrats on getting it pieces together. I’d be on pins and needles… TAB, pressure, temp, RH, cleanliness… lots to consider when temp ducting in a portable unit.

 

[2manyrocks]

I'd guess the higher ups are asking how much it would cost to keep the AC going because that is another factor to consider in deciding whether to shutter in 2024.

 

[ultrarunner]

Lots of moving parts…

It’s a little less complicated as we use 100% outside air and the governing code for air exchanges is 12 per hour when 100% outside.

Still using as built pre and bag filters as the tie in as at the built-up air intake point.

Climate is favorable regarding humidity as always within spec without using humidifier…

There are times when the condensate drain flows like a garden hose.

Cooling and the reheating for each of the 7 zones we stay between 40-50% humidity…

I do have two smaller procedure rooms served by a small package unit and 2 electric reheat coils… 24/7 the room temp never varies from 68.6 with 20 air exchanges of which 5 outside air.

Honestly, one of my biggest fears is transients stealing the temp power cables or damaging ground staged equipment.

Since July 1991 we have never cancelled a case due to facilities and environment… always find a way to make it happen…

 

[2manyrocks]

Is there a separate management team evaluating the cost of relocating elsewhere?

 

[ultrarunner]

Is there a separate management team evaluating the cost of relocating elsewhere?

Yes… but the reality is corp has lots of turnovers and reassignments so who is on your team today very likely won’t be there tomorrow.

I had asked the corp folks to spearhead a VOIP transition from our Nortell phone system and 18 months was the response I got citing pandemic and work from home etc…

My system was failing and ATT was killing us on the monthly charges.

I did the conversion in 6 weeks with no support from corp including cables, switches, contract etc. and shaved 80% off our ongoing phone cost.

What might happen is we get rolled into our sister facility as a unit but they are all union and our division is all non union…

It took 16 months to build our present facility totaling 24 months from inception to the day doors opened…

Can’t even guess a time frame in todays environment.

 

[2manyrocks]

Strongly tempted to ask if you might retire before ..... (but feel free not to reply).

A friend of mine was the facilities manager for a local college since the 1970s and retired maybe 4 years ago. They hired a facilities management company to fill his shoes. No idea how much more they are having to pay to them compared to what he was paid, but I'm sure it hit their budget pretty hard.

 

[ultrarunner]

I’ve thought about it but part of me would feel like abandoning the team.

In less than two years my mortgage is paid and not having that nut to crack each month will be significant.

My boss says no way am I retiring first…

I’m always maxed on available PTO and taking a month off might give me a new prospective… taking time off close to home is the equivalent of being on call… ha ha

 

[2manyrocks]

My friend stayed on past normal retirement because believed in the mission of the college and they were also dealing with a relocation. He got them through the relocation and up and going in the new location. After retirement, he moved out of state to be with family, but now has some health issues at his age.

 

[2manyrocks]

Also going to offer this perspective.

Often, employees have very useful knowledge of what is actually going on, practical things that would be otherwise overlooked and where things need to be changed. Following an honest and open strategic planning process can be helpful in eliciting their knowledge and deciding whether to stay put or relocate. However, if someone tries to steer the process to support their own pre-determined agenda regardless of what others think or recommend, that's not good. It can create ill-will and distrust if the employees are asked for their honest thoughts and then those thoughts are disregarded instead of being given careful consideration as the organization moves forward. If done wisely, the process can help to form concensus about how to move forward together.

 

[Sigarms]

I’ve thought about it but part of me would feel like abandoning the team.

THAT is a very admirable trait.

The bigger question is if the "team" feels the same way about you, particularly to those you report to?

At the end of the day, the bigger the company, generally the more BS you have to deal with per you're own company's policy and procedures.

I could be wrong, but I think you know what needs to be done with proper planning, but at this point in time, you're hands are tied.

I understand how you feel about the future of the HVAC industry, but what I find more distressing myself working in the HVAC industry is the future of the "canned" software world for businesses to run their computer systems.

My wife is good at what she does, writing code / software. She's been with the same company for 27 years now (all the time, writing code for their own computer software). Company decided they only had 3 software writers on staff who all get paid pretty well, so they decided to go to canned software so they won't have to relay on their own people down the road with the overhead and be worried about replacing them (long term planning). Thier software conversion started 2.5 years ago. They still don't have all the kinks worked out. My wife was worried that she could be without a job after this conversion. Reality is she has more job security than she ever has because she's the person who the sotware company who sold their bill of goods for a BUTTLOAD of money has to go to anytime there is a problem. My wife and I share the same office in the home. If you could hear some of these conversations between my wife, her co workers along with the new software company, you'd be scratching your head. First year into their conversion (which was only supposed to take 14 months) I told my wife no way it's going to be done in 2 years. People within her company have even started asking if it's possible to go back to their old system in it's entirety.

What a dumb guy like me gathers listening to my wife talk is the software company promised my wife's company the world, and management bought it for a pretty buck. They've already spent so much money and so much time trying to make this conversion work, no one is willing to admit that it was a mistake.

Here is the kicker... This new software STILL doesn't have all the bugs worked out, and the software that her company bought is now no longer available as it's been replaced.

I mention this because I've seen first hand HVAC manufacutuers change their own software for their business, and it really has been a cluster fiasco with some still trying to work their own bugs out over a year or two later, and it can be very aggrivating dealing with. It's something that consumers of the HVAC product don't see.

Company I work for has it's own software people. My boss told me the company was looking at changing their software sometime ago (not to rely on their own people), but decided against it because apparently they have seen the same thing. I told him good.