Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line.

[sixdogs]

Wow, you're good. Thanks. That is indeed the quote and I forgot On the Waterfront. The author of the book, Budd Schulberg also wrote What Makes Sammy Run, one of my youthful motivational and inspirational books. Must not have been movie material.

"On The Waterfront" 1954

Marlon Brando: "I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it."

"I could've been a contender. I could've been somebody" - On The Waterfront - YouTube

 

[downslope]

I have seen rumors where Kubota is wanting in the big Ag market through a possible purchase down the road.

Big open areas need large high hp tractors pulling giant plows and seeders.
Not too much of that in Japan or Korea.
But Russia? Europe? Canada? Australia? You bet.

Is JD the last big American tractor builder standing?
When are the Chinese going to buy JD? Or some Russian oligarch.
:shocked:

How about a last tractor builder standing for SMALL commercial Ag market? Is there a current manufacturer that builds something equivalent to the old Ford 600/800 series or MF 35, etc.? I am thinking a 2WD tractor in that 30-40 hp range with 28" rear tires that aren't too wide (12.4 or 11.2), draft control, and where you can adjust the wheel spacing like the old Fords/MF's from ~52-72 inches? It's getting kind of old to have to be looking for these antiques and then pour time and money in to get them reliable for everyday work.

 

[TSO]

There is a lot of disappointment with the CNH dealers about the LS built compacts. They are just not very good machines.

do tell ... what is it about the LS machines that makes you say that?

Why is it that there are pages of threads & posts on this NH forum about problems with the Shibaura Compact tractors, yet rarely a legitimate problem with LS machines?

 

[TSO]

do tell ... what is it about the LS machines that makes you say that?

Why is it that there are pages of threads & posts on this NH forum about problems with the Shibaura Compact tractors, yet rarely as legitimate problem with LS machines?

Edit:

Just glanced at the last 250 thread titles in the NH "owning/operating" forum, which takes me back to August ... oddly enough, there's not a single mention of a problem with an LS built Boomer. Sure are lots of problem threads related to the TC models and Shibaura Boomer equivalents tho.

Actually, before I bought my LS, I spent time in the NH forums trying to find negative reviews and had a hard time finding any. The only thing I can recall is a few occasions where one of the 3pt Stabilizer/sway bar link bracket broke. .. which is an easy & cheap bolt on fix.

Granted, there are more Shibaura built models in circulation, but still ... Sure doesn't support the claim that LS built models are inferior.


---------------------
Edit again:

Just glanced at the Case IH forums, looked at the last year's worth of titles, 230 in all, only found mention of the LS built B-series tractors 3 times. 1 of those was a "new owner" thread, and the other 2 were people looking for info on them. Zero problems tho.

 

[daugen]

it's too bad there isn't the tractor equivalent of the automobile data that tells you frequency of repair by brand.
I bet warranty data is highly protected.

 

[downslope]

It can be difficult to make honest and fair comparisons like this. Not only is the current Shibaura population much larger than the LS, but also it's quite possible that the median age of the LS population may be younger/lower hours than the Shibaura's. If in fact the Shibauras you are reading about have more hours and years on them than the fewer LS machines, then no valid comparison of reliability/quality can be made.

Edit:

Just glanced at the last 250 thread titles in the NH "owning/operating" forum, which takes me back to August ... oddly enough, there's not a single mention of a problem with an LS built Boomer. Sure are lots of problem threads related to the TC models and Shibaura Boomer equivalents tho.

Actually, before I bought my LS, I spent time in the NH forums trying to find negative reviews and had a hard time finding any. The only thing I can recall is a few occasions where one of the 3pt Stabilizer/sway bar link bracket broke. .. which is an easy & cheap bolt on fix.

Granted, there are more Shibaura built models in circulation, but still ... Sure doesn't support the claim that LS built models are inferior.


---------------------
Edit again:

Just glanced at the Case IH forums, looked at the last year's worth of titles, 230 in all, only found mention of the LS built B-series tractors 3 times. 1 of those was a "new owner" thread, and the other 2 were people looking for info on them. Zero problems tho.

 

[TSO]

It can be difficult to make honest and fair comparisons like this. Not only is the current Shibaura population much larger than the LS, but also it's quite possible that the median age of the LS population may be younger/lower hours than the Shibaura's. If in fact the Shibauras you are reading about have more hours and years on them than the fewer LS machines, then no valid comparison of reliability/quality can be made.

I agree with you. That's why I specifically said that myself, when I said there are more Shibaura models in circulation. However, if people are claiming that the LS models are inferior, I'd like to see the proof which supports that declaration.

Messick said that the LS tractors are not good machines, yet we don't see many reports (if any) of them having problems. Then, when you compare the history and prevalence of issues you find of the Shibaura models, you have to wonder what the heck he is talking about.

I'm not outright claiming that the LS models are better than the Shibaura models, because clearly we don't have long term evidence of that, either way. But the evidence also does not support that the LS machines are inferior in any way.

What we do continually find, is people saying they would rather have the Japanese built tractor than the Korean built tractor, then they claim the Japanese one is built better. Now, if someone feels that way based on political or otherwise personal idioms, then I understand. But, we see these things said without any basis of proof. It all seems to be speculation or personal preference.

 

[GManBart]

There is a lot of disappointment with the CNH dealers about the LS built compacts.

Yeah, it couldn't be that you can buy one from the OEM for $5-10K less, get a stronger loader, and better warranty.....nah, that couldn't be happening at all.

Why aren't we seeing many/any complaints about significant problems with LS/NH tractors, Case/IH/LS, or LS tractors here? If they're a poor product, it's certainly not showing up here, and unhappy customers are the ones who complain the most.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Yeah, it couldn't be that you can buy one from the OEM for $5-10K less, get a stronger loader, and better warranty.....nah, that couldn't be happening at all.

That's actually not the case, when things wash out (dealer participation in financing, floor plan costs, etc) the cost is about the same. As-is the warranty. I got my hands on some LS dealer price sheets from a friend before we started selling them. Most of the complaints are not them blowing apart and being horrible tractors. Its that next to the old Shiubaru\ISM models they are a step backwards in terms of fit, finish, noise, etc. So when our existing customers come in looking for an upgrade, we offer them what is a step backwards in many ways. Its not a bad tractor, we do sell them and they do okay for our customers. It is a less expensive machine and there are some good values. Its just 10-15 years behind the industry leaders technologically.

 

[TSO]

That's actually not the case, when things wash out (dealer participation in financing, floor plan costs, etc) the cost is about the same. As-is the warranty. I got my hands on some LS dealer price sheets from a friend before we started selling them. Most of the complaints are not them blowing apart and being horrible tractors. Its that next to the old Shiubaru\ISM models they are a step backwards in terms of fit, finish, noise, etc. So when our existing customers come in looking for an upgrade, we offer them what is a step backwards in many ways. Its not a bad tractor, we do sell them and they do okay for our customers. It is a less expensive machine and there are some good values. Its just 10-15 years behind the industry leaders technologically.

You're statement before was that "they are not very good machines. " I agree on noise ... The Shibaura diesels I have (now & past) were quieter and smoother. But that doesn't make this a bad machine.

Fit & finish ... I liked the layout of the Shibaura ones better, but I don't think the plastic fenders were a better "fit & finish" than the LS models.

Not counting CVT (which I have no interest in) ... explain how the LS tractors are 10-15 years behind in technology? What makes it a step backward from the previous Shibaura ones?

Wouldn't people prefer a reliable tractor that doesn't clog the forums with a myriad of various problems? The NH forum honestly seems to have more "problem" threads than all the others.

I can say tho, if I was NH, I wouldn't sell a rebranded LS; I would worry about people finding out they can get one for thousands cheaper, with better loaders, from an LS dealer. I would worry about pissing off loyal NH customers that might feel jaded when they find out they're being screwed.

Messick ... what, if any, actual problems have you experienced with the LS tractors? That question is not aimed to argue ... I really want to know so I can watch for it.