Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line.

[pacerron]

Some of this discussion seems a lot like Microsoft versus MAC. A lot of personal taste from owning a certain model, or perhaps an old version of one compared to a new version of the other..
What are the specifics?
I have never looked into the Boomer line but a small tractor with automatic transmission would be nice for my wife since she is only
5'-1" tall and is really not comfortable driving my CNH t4020 or my old Ford 3910, both of which are stick shift with a simple forward reverse lever, but a stiff clutch.

I haven't found where New Holland offers an LS/New Holland until the 55 hp size?
Here is a site that shows the different models and years by both companies in 2013 if you click on the "Show" tab for each manufacturer.
LS Tractors - Tractor & Construction Plant Wiki - The classic vehicle and machinery wiki

Are you saying that a small New Holland Boomer tractor is nothing more than an LS with a different paint job at a higher price?
That's where the specs need to match... Weight, hp, front and rear axle capacities, and the same bells and whistles for what price..

 

[TSO]

Are you saying that a small New Holland Boomer tractor is nothing more than an LS with a different paint job at a higher price?
That's where the specs need to match... Weight, hp, front and rear axle capacities, and the same bells and whistles for what price..

Yes. The NH Boomer 35, 40, & 50 (as well as the Case Farmall 35b, 40b, 50b) ... are exactly the LS R3039, 4041, & 4047. LS builds tractors for many different companies, but currently those models are the same. The sub compacts are also LS built, and copies of the LS J series. Literally, you can buy the LS brande equal for thousands less.

The Shibaura built TC40,45, etc ... also have Case equivalents... just can't remember their model names.

 

[CNH_Dealer]

New Holland is committed to the compact tractor business. The 2014 models are currently being launched to dealers. While still produced by LS, the "new" Boomers will feature an improved, larger platform that is similar to the Shibaura produced tractors. Also, the engine will be a tier 4 Shibaura instead of the current LS/Mitsubishi engine. Overall, the tractors are a lot more comfortable and quieter.

 

[pacerron]

Yes. The NH Boomer 35, 40, & 50 (as well as the Case Farmall 35b, 40b, 50b) ... are exactly the LS R3039, 4041, & 4047. LS builds tractors for many different companies, but currently those models are the same. The sub compacts are also LS built, and copies of the LS J series. Literally, you can buy the LS brande equal for thousands less.

The Shibaura built TC40,45, etc ... also have Case equivalents... just can't remember their model names.

Thanks for the info.
I'm not quite sure how you are determining how the price differential is thousands of dollars in comparable models?
I can tell you from experience that the price for Case New Holland tractors and New Holland FEL's when actually purchased from a local dealer
can be thousands of dollars less than what you see, when you put together and price one on the New Holland site. So if you are using prices from internet sites to compare you may not be correct. You can even get better prices from one dealer vs. another of the same brand within a 50 mile radius.
It depends on what they have, how they bought them, and how bad they want to sell them.
You have to haggle, blow some cigar smoke at each other and perhaps walk out and go back later to find out the real selling price. At least that's how it is around here.

I see the closest LS dealer to me is 30 miles. My New Holland dealer is 15 miles so I may check them out.

 

[TSO]

New Holland is committed to the compact tractor business. The 2014 models are currently being launched to dealers. While still produced by LS, the "new" Boomers will feature an improved, larger platform that is similar to the Shibaura produced tractors. Also, the engine will be a tier 4 Shibaura instead of the current LS/Mitsubishi engine. Overall, the tractors are a lot more comfortable and quieter.

Thanks for the post and clarification. That confirms some confusion we were having regarding the engine changes. We saw earlier that LS was changing to Shibaura for Tier 4. I spoke with their corporate spokesperson about it asking why the change? He said it was basically because LS didn't want to deal with buying the rights to Mitsu's Tier 4 engines and deal with building them ... and since Shibaura already had one ready, it was easier to go with that. But, the confusion came in where some NH dealers (and even the "build" portion of the website) stated that the new Boomer would use a Tier 4 Mitsubishi... none of us could figure out why LS would use Shibaura, but NH would keep the Mitsu. Sounds like they're both using the Shibaura then, so essentially, the NH/Case models will be LS clones again.

Regarding that picture, looks like they've made some nice changes to the operators area. I'm glad they moved the fuel tank down below (just hope it isn't prone to damage that way). Looks like that might have let them move the seat back a bit, and it looks like that seat has arm rests now, so I may have to retro-fit both my fuel tank AND seat if it's possible. Also looks like they built a cover to conceal the loader joystick cables (nice improvement, I'll have to get one ) and also maybe widened out the fenders a bit? That is something I have complained about myself. Also looks like they changed the ROPS shape. But thanks for posting that pic ... that's the first I've seen.

Thanks for the info.
I'm not quite sure how you are determining how the price differential is thousands of dollars in comparable models?
I can tell you from experience that the price for Case New Holland tractors and New Holland FEL's when actually purchased from a local dealer
can be thousands of dollars less than what you see, when you put together and price one on the New Holland site. So if you are using prices from internet sites to compare you may not be correct. You can even get better prices from one dealer vs. another of the same brand within a 50 mile radius.
It depends on what they have, how they bought them, and how bad they want to sell them.
You have to haggle, blow some cigar smoke at each other and perhaps walk out and go back later to find out the real selling price. At least that's how it is around here.

I see the closest LS dealer to me is 30 miles. My New Holland dealer is 15 miles so I may check them out.

You might be confused as to what I was saying ... If you buy a rebadged LS clone from a NH or Case dealership (called a Boomer 35,40,50 .... or Farmall 35b,40b,50b) you will pay THOUSANDS more than if you buy the same tractor straight from the LS dealer. Same tractor $4,843 price difference. And keep in mind, the LS loader lifts roughly 640 lbs more than the NH loader, and has over 800 lbs more breakout force.

* I paid $21760 for my 2013 LS R4047 HST, with loader, 2 sets of remotes, draft control, rear work light, rear 7-pin harness ...
* Local NH dealer quoted me $26603 for a 2013 Boomer 50 HST (same tractor), NH 250tl loader, 1 set of remotes, no draft control.

 

[Guesseral]

Yea I like the looks of the new boomer. I wish they would update the LS page also, but they still only list the R4047 w/o a cab and the XR4046C with cab.

 

[Guesseral]

Yea I like the looks of the new boomer. I wish they would update the LS page also, but they still only list the R4047 w/o a cab and the XR4046C with cab.

I wonder why they call it a boomer 47 you would think it would be a 46? :confused3:

 

[pacerron]

* I paid $21760 for my 2013 LS R4047 HST, with loader, 2 sets of remotes, draft control, rear work light, rear 7-pin harness ...
* Local NH dealer quoted me $26603 for a 2013 Boomer 50 HST (same tractor), NH 250tl loader, 1 set of remotes, no draft control.

Thanks.. I see how you are basing your conclusion.

As far as the composition fuel tank being on the bottom, I have 2 fuel tanks on the t4020 that are both composition.
The one under the deck sets in a steel frame and the bottom is covered with a steel plate except for a small area where they have
a threaded drain plug. The one behind the seat feeds the lower unit so they are essentially one tank.
One thing I don't like is that since the fuel gauge is in the bottom tank, it will show full until the top tank is empty and the position of the sensor will make it dance between 1/4 full and empty with the caution light coming on and off on a slight grade.
The top tank has a sight tube between the tank and the back of the driver's seat. No big deal once you understand what is going on and having 20+ gallon of fuel on board saves refueling time on a long day of use.

 

[fieldman12]

Thanks for the post and clarification. That confirms some confusion we were having regarding the engine changes. We saw earlier that LS was changing to Shibaura for Tier 4. I spoke with their corporate spokesperson about it asking why the change? He said it was basically because LS didn't want to deal with buying the rights to Mitsu's Tier 4 engines and deal with building them ... and since Shibaura already had one ready, it was easier to go with that. But, the confusion came in where some NH dealers (and even the "build" portion of the website) stated that the new Boomer would use a Tier 4 Mitsubishi... none of us could figure out why LS would use Shibaura, but NH would keep the Mitsu. Sounds like they're both using the Shibaura then, so essentially, the NH/Case models will be LS clones again.

Regarding that picture, looks like they've made some nice changes to the operators area. I'm glad they moved the fuel tank down below (just hope it isn't prone to damage that way). Looks like that might have let them move the seat back a bit, and it looks like that seat has arm rests now, so I may have to retro-fit both my fuel tank AND seat if it's possible. Also looks like they built a cover to conceal the loader joystick cables (nice improvement, I'll have to get one ) and also maybe widened out the fenders a bit? That is something I have complained about myself. Also looks like they changed the ROPS shape. But thanks for posting that pic ... that's the first I've seen.



You might be confused as to what I was saying ... If you buy a rebadged LS clone from a NH or Case dealership (called a Boomer 35,40,50 .... or Farmall 35b,40b,50b) you will pay THOUSANDS more than if you buy the same tractor straight from the LS dealer. Same tractor $4,843 price difference. And keep in mind, the LS loader lifts roughly 640 lbs more than the NH loader, and has over 800 lbs more breakout force.

* I paid $21760 for my 2013 LS R4047 HST, with loader, 2 sets of remotes, draft control, rear work light, rear 7-pin harness ...
* Local NH dealer quoted me $26603 for a 2013 Boomer 50 HST (same tractor), NH 250tl loader, 1 set of remotes, no draft control.

I have looked at the LS tractors in person and also the New Holland branded LS machines. Both look nice. I agree why spend the more money?? I think if a guy is going to buy a machine and keep forever the LS in my opinion would be the no brainer cheaper price and more bang for the buck. The only reason to maybe spend the extra $4000 to 5000 is if you plan on selling the tractor in a few years and want the best resale. I know my 2001 New Holland I have priced several used ones and they are bringing about what I paid for it new for that model and year. I know some of the not so well known brands around here seem to drop a great deal in price and im talking close to half what a person paid for it. As these brands that are not well known in the US prove them selves and get there name out there the value will go up like Kubota has many years ago. Allot of what the US is based on is brand names. As bad as I hate to say it we like brand names better even though brand X may make it. One thing LS also has in its court is New Holland I don't feel is as well known as the Ford tractor name ever was and does not have as near the following. Take for example a little Yanmar branded John Deere and just a Yanmar. Get 100 people that know nothing about tractors and see which they would be willing to spend more for and which brand name they know. I know it is all crazy but it is true. We pay for names here. I think it is very cool that LS ships there tractors already assembled and in a box trailer. That is something I would like all brands to do. That means to me they have pride in there work and craftsmanship. One things is for sure it will be interesting where LS is in the US in 10 years as far as name recognition and resale.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

you guys do realize that we (I) have to walk a line between being honest with what we see in the field, and what we sell and support. There is a market for the LS tractors, and New Holland seems reasonably happy with how they have done. We sell about the same number of them that we did the old Shibaura models. If pressed by a customer, we will admit that the engineering in these tractors lags Kubota (which we also sell) and the prior New Holland models. Most folks at CNH won't argue that point either. They fill a value niche in the market. Its not in my interest to publicly hash out where we see these differences, but suffice to say... if you hop from one to the next they become apparent quickly. I'm not trying to cut down anyone's purchase decision, just calling a spade and spade.

On the pricing, you can't draw a conclusion here from just a few experiences. The nature of how these things are sold can cause dealer cost to swing wildly. We periodically get deals on Boomer 30\35 and blow outs on T1510's that put our Kubota options to shame. That said, if the timing is wrong and inventory is not managed right you won't be competitive at all. As a customer, you really gotta put boots on the ground and check whats happening in your local market. At the end of the quarter when CNH is looking for sales on another dozen compacts they will stop at almost nothing to win deals. This contracts hugly to Kubota who is very consistent in their dealings.