Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line.

   / Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line. #81  
As I read this thread on Brand names I can't get this smile off my face. I don't know how many times I've read about Kubota's and JD's being sold with less than a Hundred hours on them selling for 2/3rds of new price. So you go ahead and pay your 5 to more like it 8 grand more and I'll read some more.:)
 
   / Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line. #82  
As I read this thread on Brand names I can't get this smile off my face. I don't know how many times I've read about Kubota's and JD's being sold with less than a Hundred hours on them selling for 2/3rds of new price. So you go ahead and pay your 5 to more like it 8 grand more and I'll read some more.:)

2/3 of new price is pretty well standard off the lot depreciation for just about anything. Pretty much, from 1-400 hours and less than 3-4 years that's what you get. Its really to cover the lost warranty coverage and lack of the oh so popular 0/60 financing. The real tell for resale is at 10-12 years when people start questioning things like dealer and parts support.
 
   / Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line. #83  
2/3 of new price is pretty well standard off the lot depreciation for just about anything. Pretty much, from 1-400 hours and less than 3-4 years that's what you get. Its really to cover the lost warranty coverage and lack of the oh so popular 0/60 financing. The real tell for resale is at 10-12 years when people start questioning things like dealer and parts support.

That's where it might be easier to scrap it then pay the almighty big dollar If the have those parts at 15 or so years. And that depends on how cheaply it was made. I looked a lonnnng time for my machine and I passed up a lot off junk and future yard art on the way.
 
   / Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line. #84  
you guys do realize that we (I) have to walk a line between being honest with what we see in the field, and what we sell and support. There is a market for the LS tractors, and New Holland seems reasonably happy with how they have done. We sell about the same number of them that we did the old Shibaura models. If pressed by a customer, we will admit that the engineering in these tractors lags Kubota (which we also sell) and the prior New Holland models. Most folks at CNH won't argue that point either. They fill a value niche in the market. Its not in my interest to publicly hash out where we see these differences, but suffice to say... if you hop from one to the next they become apparent quickly. I'm not trying to cut down anyone's purchase decision, just calling a spade and spade.

On the pricing, you can't draw a conclusion here from just a few experiences. The nature of how these things are sold can cause dealer cost to swing wildly. We periodically get deals on Boomer 30\35 and blow outs on T1510's that put our Kubota options to shame. That said, if the timing is wrong and inventory is not managed right you won't be competitive at all. As a customer, you really gotta put boots on the ground and check whats happening in your local market. At the end of the quarter when CNH is looking for sales on another dozen compacts they will stop at almost nothing to win deals. This contracts hugly to Kubota who is very consistent in their dealings.
Wow ... good to know. Basically what I'm taking from your statement, is that we can only trust you to be honest with your posts as long as it suits your own needs. I have noticed you bash numerous tractors on this forum over time, with the exception of Kubota. I'm assuming then, that your most profitable compact tractor brand then is Kubota? Too bad that we can't expect a member that posts quite frequently, to be honest because he "has to walk a fine line" and be deceptive.

I have sat on competing Kubotas. I have sat on competing tractors from many different brands. My local Kubota dealership is about 2 miles from my house, and at least once a month I stop by and sit on their new (and various brands used tractors they have) Kubota tractors, because I'm like a kid when it comes to these machines, and I like to play with all of them, regardless of name or paint on the fenders. I have found that they all have little things here and there that I feel are better (in regards to a components quality) when you go from one tractor to another. However, unless you're talking about price & value, I find them all to be more alike than different. I understand that Kubota's HST+ is a step forward in HST design. So if that is the "technology" you are talking about that is so much more advanced than the LS built NH line, I can at least follow along in your logic. But a "feature" is not enough to put another tractors quality to shame.

Odd how your original statement of "these are just not very good machines" is now changing as you try to save face. Maybe that's just the statement you use to sway customers to your more profitable orange tractors? I'm just speculating of course, but even if you came clean, how could we trust anything you, as a dealer, has to say? Typical salesman.
 
   / Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line. #85  
I think the LS guys regret not buying a Mahindra.
 
   / Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line. #86  
TSO: Messicks has been a supporting member for far longer than you or I. Suggest you go easy on hurling the insults.
Trying to discredit Messicks will get you nowhere.
 
   / Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line. #87  
(I) have to walk a line between being honest with what we see in the field, and what we sell and support.?

What does this mean to you??? The credit is all there.
 
   / Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line. #88  
Thanks Murph ...

TSO: Messicks has been a supporting member for far longer than you or I. Suggest you go easy on hurling the insults.
Trying to discredit Messicks will get you nowhere.
Messicks is apparently trying to discredit himself. I've been trying to have an honest conversation with the guy since the beginning of this thread. He specifically says "it's not in his interest to ..." and "I have to walk a fine line between being honest ...". Jeez guy (daugen) I'm not trying to "hurl insults" around, but give me a break. Just because Messick has been on the thread longer than you or I doesn't grant him any more credibility than you or I have. I'm just a regular Joe Schmoe tractor user who likes to research the crap out of tractors because I like them and I find it interesting (when you get beneath the paint and learn more about them). I don't go around this forum lying, or walking a fine line between honesty and whatever else is in my interests. I'm here to share and gain knowledge. If I am wrong about something, I'm happy to admit it because no one's perfect. But as a "supporting member" and especially a dealer, Messick does this site a great disservice by the misleading things he says. Imagine I was a brand new tractor buyer looking into a New Holland Boomer, and here's this dealer on the site (who just so happens to sell "more Kubota's than NH" [as he's said before]) saying "it's just not a good machine." Look, if there's information to BACK THAT UP, I'm all ears. I own one, so I'd like to know. Clearly there isn't any weight behind his claims because he dodges the question and spits out "fit & finish" and "technology blah blah blah" instead of giving a straight detailed answer.

I think the LS guys regret not buying a Mahindra.
LOL, actually (and I've said it before) if price was no object, I may very well have ended up with a Mahindra 5035 HST.
 
   / Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line. #89  
I bet this thread will get locked or disappear.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using TractorByNet
 
   / Future of New Holland Utility and Compact tractor line. #90  
Jeez guy (daugen) I'm not trying to "hurl insults" around, but give me a break. Just because Messick has been on the thread longer than you or I doesn't grant him any more credibility than you or I have

Fair enough, I will give you a break. I too thought some of the words used were unfortunate without some better context.
Feels like a politician trying to walk back some remarks, but I also know that Messicks has answered a slew of important questions on this forum, is a respected dealership, and all I'm suggesting is you remember he is a dealer, and dealers have opinions too. Maybe unfortunate that he expressed that opinion here, but the reaction has been that he called your babies ugly... I just think you are a little harsh on the guy. And Murph, I didn't understand that one either.

And since I find this discussion very interesting, even if I don't own a NH, and want it to continue, I remember when I first joined this forum and lambasted an advertiser, only partially fairly. That thread disappeared and I got a nice note from the mods. 94Bullit is right, saying things like how could we trust anything you, as a dealer, has to say? Typical salesman. is pretty insulting, and that's your final statement. Simply too harsh in my opinion, for a "friendly" forum.

I don't know how Messicks could respond to this without endangering their contracts, but hopefully they will.
 

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