Ok after I read these post twice and some three times it looks like the question comes down to vent or not to vent. I'm 100% for sure I will insulate the ceiling and walls. Since I'm doing this and redoing the front of the building so I can put in a insulated garage door I don't see why I should vent. By not venting I'm trying to keep the air inside the same constant temp. Now If I go the vent route I don't see why I would want to insulate. So am I on the right track with my thinking on vent and not insulate or insulate and not vent. Thanks Rick
Garage built in hillside sweating
- Thread starter rickyb01
- Start date
- Views: 8908
KennyG
Elite Member
My take is that even with insulation, you will end up with some air infiltration. Ventilation will bring the inside temperature up to about the outside temperature and minimize the condensation if you insulate. My take is that you need to insulate and ventilate. If you only do one, either way I think you will still have very high humidity.
The closest relevant experience I have is with a bathroom in my basement. When I bought the house, water would be standing on the tile floor from condensation in the summer. I redid the insulation and vapor barrier on the walls. I took up the tile and added dri-core panels to the floor, and then put flooring over that. I then put in a small heat recovery ventilator (about 60 cfm) to pull air out and introduce outside air into the upstairs of the house. There isn't a hint of condensation now and it doesn't even feel humid. You won't be able to insulate the floor, but if you can cover the walls and ceiling (you need very little thickness because the surface heat transfer will be much lower with anything other than metal) and get some air flow (you don't need the heat recovery) you should see a great improvement.
The closest relevant experience I have is with a bathroom in my basement. When I bought the house, water would be standing on the tile floor from condensation in the summer. I redid the insulation and vapor barrier on the walls. I took up the tile and added dri-core panels to the floor, and then put flooring over that. I then put in a small heat recovery ventilator (about 60 cfm) to pull air out and introduce outside air into the upstairs of the house. There isn't a hint of condensation now and it doesn't even feel humid. You won't be able to insulate the floor, but if you can cover the walls and ceiling (you need very little thickness because the surface heat transfer will be much lower with anything other than metal) and get some air flow (you don't need the heat recovery) you should see a great improvement.
ultrarunner
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2004
- Messages
- 24,079
- Tractor
- Cat D3, Deere 110 TLB, Kubota BX23 and L3800 and RTV900 with restored 1948 Deere M, 1949 Farmall Cub, 1953 Ford Jubliee and 1957 Ford 740 Row Crop, Craftsman Mower, Deere 350C Dozer 50 assorted vehicles from 1905 to 2006
Having had similar structures... condensation is a problem when warm outside air is drawn in... unless enough air circulates to equalize... guessing a structure with a side fully open all the time?
The blue board does work as long as carefully installed and with edges and seams sealed.
Think of an old metal ice chest... the insulation was enough to separate the zones.
Some of my neighbors with similar workshops have installed radiant floor heat using solar and backup heat which raises the dew point.
The blue board does work as long as carefully installed and with edges and seams sealed.
Think of an old metal ice chest... the insulation was enough to separate the zones.
Some of my neighbors with similar workshops have installed radiant floor heat using solar and backup heat which raises the dew point.
Man I really appreciate everyone's comments but I'm as confused as heck on what to do. Does anybody think by insulating and putting a garage door on for a better seal and running a dehumidifier would work?
I'm not that big on drilling through the top of shelter through all that concrete. It looks like to vent the building I would have to. Maybe hire someone to do it.
Who would you even consider to drill holes in shelter and set up a vent system.?
The way I'm thinking is insulate and dehumidify first. If that doesn't work then add ventilation minus the dehumidify. If that don't work the hel* with it.
I'm not that big on drilling through the top of shelter through all that concrete. It looks like to vent the building I would have to. Maybe hire someone to do it.
Who would you even consider to drill holes in shelter and set up a vent system.?
The way I'm thinking is insulate and dehumidify first. If that doesn't work then add ventilation minus the dehumidify. If that don't work the hel* with it.
ultrarunner
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2004
- Messages
- 24,079
- Tractor
- Cat D3, Deere 110 TLB, Kubota BX23 and L3800 and RTV900 with restored 1948 Deere M, 1949 Farmall Cub, 1953 Ford Jubliee and 1957 Ford 740 Row Crop, Craftsman Mower, Deere 350C Dozer 50 assorted vehicles from 1905 to 2006
I tend to go for one time permanent fixes as opposed to ongoing ones that require monthly expense month after month.
Running a humidifier here would get expensive at 25 cents a kW
Running a humidifier here would get expensive at 25 cents a kW
Boiler74
Silver Member
I'm one for doing things in steps. I am on the side of insulate first and see if that fixes it. Introducing new holes into the structure could introduce new problems like leaks. Think of it this way, if you are core drilling through steel and concrete to put in a vent later, will going through a little spray foam insulation be that big of a deal?
When I redo the front wall of storage I can run 4" PVC pipe to do this. On one side I can run the length of the building at the top with four T's and on the other side I can run a duplicate pipe on the bottom. No drilling thru concrete at all. Figure out a way to use an exhaust fan with top pipe and I think it will work.
ruffdog
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2011
- Messages
- 10,650
- Location
- southern wisconsin
- Tractor
- Bobcat Toolcat 5610G, Deere X744, Cub Cadet IH 982
Maybe just live with it for a year first. You already know how "venting" it works by opening the doors up on a warm humid day. Call the previous owner and ask him your questions and see what he says.
GPintheMitten
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2009
- Messages
- 3,291
- Location
- Flushing, Michigan
- Tractor
- Kubota B2620 with BH65 backhoe, Ford 2N
No expert here, but thinking about the venting and air exchange. If the outside air is warmer than the "cave space" won't it still condense on surfaces that are colder than the air?