gas line easement

[BTDT]

I work for gas utility in Dallas. I think the post about DOT refers to interstate pipelines. We are intra-state, Texas Railroad commission are the ones that regulate our lines. I work in the Transmission (high pressure) side of the business, Distribution (low pressure) takes gas from us, regulates it down in pressure and delivers it to customers and business. This is where the color(?) comes in, usually yellow or orange (plastic) for low pressure, steel for high pressure (can sometimes have a light green coating for corrosion protection). Easements vary. Years ago, and out in the country, it was 25' either side of pipe (50' total). As encroachments (population) started getting closer to lines, sometimes they would narrow the easement. Varies by population, whether or not schools are nearby, single story buildings or high rises. Usually gas co. takes care of gas line up to the meter, from meter to house/business is owners responsibility. As for easement access, the gas co. usually pays the taxes on the land that the pipeline is on within the easement, so that's why they can come and go as they please. Depths vary. Widely. Texas has a one call system, you notify them and they will send someone to mark line with flags, and they can "bar" down and tell you how deep it is. Ours are usually around 3'. One runs under Lake Ray Hubbard. Signs should be on each side of road and at fences with Company's tel. # for emergency contacts. Contact your local gas co. and they can give you all the specifics, when pipe was laid, pressure, etc. You would be amazed at how many pipelines are out there.

 

[YanmarFever]

He is only interested in selling the land, and the less he says, the less he can be held responsible for. When dealing with the realtor, remember, that he / she works for the seller, not the buyer. Many times they will tell you that you don't need a lawyer. If you hire a lawyer, he will be working for you, and is being paid to protect your interests, not the sellers. Many people believe that the mortgage company lawyers will protect them. They work for the mortgage company, not you. If you can't afford to have an attorney working for you, then you can't afford to purchase the property, because the money you spend now, will save you 10 times that amount later on when problems arise. It is always better to be pro active, than re active. Resolve all these issues before you purchase the land. Later on, you might not even be able to sell the land because of potential problems. A good lawyer will not cost you money, but will save you money and headaches.
Dusty

Dusty, thats good advise !

We had a gas pipeline on our last place we lived at, NEVER again will we do that. 3x a week their plane went 100' over our house at 6am checking out the pipe or spraying herbiside on the grass over the pipe.

When we had a small earthquake everyone was worried about that dumb pipe in their back yards.

My old neighbor was an excavator and he would dig around it all the time and we would call it in to the pipeline # after he would build fires near the site.
In all we were always nervous over the dumb thing.

My wife was happy when we moved

 

[NoMo]

There is a "warning" sign at one corner of my property for a high-pressure gas line. When I bought the place, I asked the seller about it and he gave me an environmental impact study that he had done when he bought the place. While the primary reason for the study was an abandoned oil well on an adjacent property, it showed information for the gas line. So, you might ask if a similar study has been done on the land you're looking at.

Unfortunately, while installing a fence a couple of years ago, I "found" another gas line that was not marked on the easements and wasn't listed in the environmental study. This was a small, low-pressure line transporting raw gas to a nearby underground storage well (which is where the high-pressure line also goes!). Obviously, I called "the gas company" when I 'found' this line. They sent a rep out and he surveyed his maps and didn't see this line anywhere either. Finally, after driving around looking for other gas line notices (signs), he found a small oil company who said the line was theirs.

The point of all this rambling is that you may need to do some investigative work to find the owner of the gas line if it's not clearly marked. And, you may "find" other lines that aren't marked at all. So, if "I" really liked the property, I'd not let that gas line be the reason not to buy the place.

Oh, and the high-pressure line that just clips the corner of my place also runs diagonally across the middle of the two 10 acre tracts next to me. Both of those tracts have recently sold- even with the gas line AND the old, abandoned oil well on property line between them!

 

[kenmac]

I know here they fly over the gas line in a helecopter .if they see any activity going on their R.O.W.they land the chopper .Most of these gas lines are distribution lines which could have in exccess of 800 to 1000 psi mabe more depending on the line. They don't like anyone digging, building ,etc, over their line.We had a guy that dug a footing for a garage over one of our lines once. Says he didn't think to call. The line only had 300 psi on it. He was lucky he didn't burn himself & his machine up. He had to move his garage off the R.O.W.

 

[BTDT]

We also have what we call "air patrol". They look for work going on near pipeline, dead spots (when grass is actually green, a leak will show up as a dead spot), encroachments (when someone is building or moving something on top of pipeline), etc.

Here are 3 pics of a section of our pipe (18" steel) that was in the bottom of a creek. A hydra-axe (rubber tired articulated front mounted brush cutter) was clearing ROW (right-of-way) along top of pipeline, dropped off into a dry section of creek bed, rotating blade dug into bottom of creekbed and hit pipe (see marks on pipe), causing it to blow out. It had 600#'s pressure on it at the time. Luckily no fire or explosion.

As a side note, if you are mowing property unfamiliar to you, there are also some pipes sticking out of ground where house meters used to be, but house and slabs are long gone. It can be exciting if you hit one of those with a mower also.

 

[kenmac]

About 2 yrs age , there was a company installing an underground cable of some sort (no pictures)The trincher was an $80,000 machine until it trinched a hole in one of our lines with 500 psi on it . The operator got off in time ,but the machine was toast.

 

[jimg]

Well, thanx a million for all the inputs. You've given me lots to consider!

I do understand the realtor works for the seller. I wasn't after a substantive reply when I put the question to him. I was interested in his reaction to the question and how he might answer it. I'm not at all set on this property yet. Its a reasonably good piece of ground that would suit my purposes pretty well and it's fairly fetching and lays well. However, it's certainly not worth anything if having a gas line on it would be a problem. Right now I'm just investigating and the easement is part of that. I will say that it grows some world class squirrels. While we were driving the back 40 one of the biggest squirrels I've ever seen ran right in front of the truck. WOW!!! WOW!!!!! I was ready then and there to go squirrel hunting!!!! Even the realtor commented and he was a deer hunter by preference. It took a bit to settle back down and pay attention to what we were doing.

As for lawyers...I have a *very* poor view of them and completely disagree w/ the absolute need for one. Catching a greased pig is far easier than getting a real answer from a lawyer no matter who pays him. The high demand for lawyers, I think, is mostly driven by the fact that people refuse to listen/talk to each other anymore or treat each other w/ proper respect. There was a time when not so many lawyers were needed or wanted.

I'll check back in once I've spoken w/ the utility rep. and have looked over the agreement and asked my questions.

I really aprpeciate all the input and thank you for taking the time to write it up!!

 

[jimg]

Just to wrap this all up...both the realtor and I tryed our best to get the utility to discuss the easement but they've just ignored us. We both have called several times and left messages indicating what we needed etc. but get no call back. Perhaps this is SOP? If so, it seems rather odd and in my mind bodes badly for any future interaction I might have w/ them. BTW the person who's getting the messages is at work. I guess if I really wanted the land I could travel to SC and knock on their door but I think I have all the info I need. We also had a chance to 'meet' the neighbors last w/e which was the bullet in the head of this deal. They seem to believe the land should stay open so they have someplace to exercise, hunt and whatever else it is they do there. It's too bad b/c it was a pretty nice place otherwise. Oh well....

 

[rox]

I would expect that restriction, although one place I was checking for leaks had an 8" line running right under the middle of a good sized pond.

Bird,

As soon as i saw the topic I knew this was an ideal question for your background and experience. We are so lucky here on TBN to have such diversity in our members.

I did have to kind of smile when BMAC posted about his swingset project. But then when i read all the different replies with different ideas and suggestions i realized how right he was to post here first, before we buy or sign.

 

[kossetx]

Jim, I haven't read any of the posts but I'm going to give you my opinion without that. There has been a gas pipeline across my property for more than 60 years. They recieved the rights under eminent domain as family owned the land before the pipeline came. I have never had any real complaints with them for the 26 years I've been on it other than they mowed the mesquite trees rather that kill them. Those dang mesquite have built quite a root stock. They come in and mow and leave without any problems or damage. Now that I keep it mowed, they don't even come in anymore.

I don't know how deep the pipe is, but there is a dry creek that has cut down about 8' and there still is no pipe showing.

Just fyi, MP

 

[gemini5362]

Well, thanx a million for all the inputs. You've given me lots to consider!



As for lawyers...I have a *very* poor view of them and completely disagree w/ the absolute need for one. Catching a greased pig is far easier than getting a real answer from a lawyer no matter who pays him. The high demand for lawyers, I think, is mostly driven by the fact that people refuse to listen/talk to each other anymore or treat each other w/ proper respect. There was a time when not so many lawyers were needed or wanted.

It is too bad that you have a poor view of lawyers. I have a very good friend who is an attorney and I have never had bad advice from him or a real answer either. My wife is a real estate attorney from what I hear her clients seem to think that she gives them real answers every time they talk to her. I personally have never met anyone more honest than her so perhaps you have just had the bad luck of meeting one of the less than scrupulous attorneys that give the others bad names. Perhaps you are right about the reason for the need for attorneys. There are a lot of people who dont want to do the right thing anymore they just want to get something for nothing. The reason I advised an real estate attorney is that a lot of people try to write easements and they work for maybe the original parties. Invariably something changes. One of the parties sell their property but the easement is not what they thought it was because it was written wrong. The new owner sees what it really is and takes advantage of the situation. Obviously it is a mute point since you are not buying the property but it is interesting to see you assasinate the character of an entire group of people. Exactly what do you do for a living.

 

[jimg]

Hi gemini
I'm glad your mileage has been better than mine. I've had a fair amt. of exposure to lawyers (very recently too) and few of those episodes ended to well. At any rate I appreciate the pitch for the legal profession and I'm sure you're quite right since there must be some out there capable of conducting themselves properly in public. I think the law of avgs must dictate it. BTW my brother is one (a lawyer) but he denies it regularly.

 

[jimg]

Guess I should have waited another day before posting a final disposition. On my noon time walk today I spotted a utility truck of the company that owns the pipeline and decided to stop and have a talk. This is the first time Ive ever seen anything to do w/ this particular utility. It turns out the guy in the truck is a field tech. responsible for all things to do w/ the pipelines running thru the area. He was quite friendly and able to answer most of my questions. He knew all about the line of my particular interest (in great detail). Cool! So, I came away w/ a list of mostly answered questions and contact info for him and his boss. I'm planning to make an appt to get the remainder answered soon. I guess I should have just used my Easy button right off the bat.

 

[Captinjack]

I've got a gas line that is exposed to the surface of the dirt road coming into my property. It's cast iron as best I can tell.

Contacted the gas company regarding whether it was active or not so I could remove it as I was doing some road work. Never heard from them after talking to a local gas employee who was supposed to mark the line. Heck, no need to mark the line. It already was on top of the road & I have to drive over it!

Shouldn't it be illegal to not have the pipe properly buried? Is this dangerous? Any sage advice out there?

Thanks in advance of any recommedations.

 

[jimg]

Can't tell you exactly but there are federal guidelines they must follow which stipulate a certain maintenance/inspection schedule + state guidlines etc + who knows what else. I learned all this today. I seems though that guide lines or not it would be in the utilities best interest to maintain their infrastructure w/o prodding. The guy I talked w/ said the line was supposed to be buried to a certain depth but that could vary (widely). However, he said they shouldn't be exposed either and if they were it would be a big problem. We were discussing this in the context of how a farm operation might pose problems for their line. He did offer to send a man out to determine the exact depth along the entire length (over a mi.) on the land I'm looking at. Perhaps in your case you're not in touch w/ the right people at the utility? In my case it took some (considerable) time to locate the right person(s). I also asked about putting a road (drive way) over the line and he said they prefer it be parallel or perpendicular rather than on top of the line. However, he didn't seem to think a road would be a problem.

It seems that an exposed line would pose more of a danger than one which is buried. Perhaps the line is no longer in use? Id try to find that out first.

 

[Captinjack]

Thanks for your prompt reply.

I guess I'm gonna have to get off my butt and raise some stink. The main problem with the gas line is that it crosses on of the drainage ditches and clogs up with leaves causing the water to overflow back onto the road.