Gas Line

DougM · Sep 23, 2004

There is a gas supply line that runs across my land and it was to be located here BUT it was located THERE and I ws digging a ditch buy my garage and now the is a orange gas line in two pcs where it was not to be .... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Gas was about 140 lbs of presure I went to the supply line shut off valve and it does not work the way it is to ..

So I bend the hose back on its shelf where it was broken and tape it so it will stay ..
Gas line people will be out tommorow to fix it..
My 2310 MF does all I asked it to do but it should know better then to listen to me /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Junkman · Sep 23, 2004

They never are where they say that they are..... it happens all the time. Have them mark it out and do some test holes when they come to fix it. Tell them that it must be properly identified on its entire length of the property because you will be doing some extensive digging and don't want an explosion because of their inability to locate the utility properly. I am surprised that they are waiting till daylight to come. Around here, the slightest smell of gas leaking will bring out the troops to find where it is coming from. What I didn't know about natural gas until we had a problem is that black iron pipe will rust out from the inside to the outside as a result of natural gas. The gas company said that it should be replaced every 20 years even if it isn't leaking.

keeney · Sep 23, 2004

I was "hand-digging" in the marked area near my natural gas line, and was surprised to find it only about 10" deep. I was expecting it to be about 24" deep. I nicked it with the shovel, but it did not appear to be leaking, but I called anyway.

The gas company sent a guy out that same evening, he arrived around 9:30 pm. Checked it with some soap and an electronic sniffer and said that it would be fine.

I told him that I felt like I had cried wolf because there was little danger from a slow leak out in the middle of the yard.

The guy disagreed, saying that there is significant danger. The leaking gas tends to follow the looser, disturbed dirt in the trench. If its capped over by some damper soil and turf on top, the gas can diffuse all the way to the house, and perhaps enter where the pipe goes through the foundation wall. Some entire houses have exploded/burned that way.

Made me glad I called, even though it seemed silly at the time.

- Rick

rbarker · Sep 23, 2004

( There is a gas supply line that runs across my land and it was to be located here BUT it was located THERE and I ws digging a ditch buy my garage and now the is a orange gas line in two pcs where it was not to be .... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
)

Wow! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif There is still clothing stuck up in trees in the next Town over from me from when a Doctor with a back hoe hit his gas main while fixing a walkway and blew his entire house to bits a few years back. Luck was with you! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Bird · Sep 24, 2004

( the gas can diffuse all the way to the house, and perhaps enter where the pipe goes through the foundation wall )

It can sometimes follow the pipe even in soil that has not been disturbed in years. When I was doing gas leakage surveys, I found a very dangerous level of gas under one house when the leak was actually over 50' away under the street in front of the house.

Egon · Sep 24, 2004

The plastic gas lines are supposed to have tracer lines trenched in with them to aid in location.

Plain pipe can corrode from either side depending on the differences in soil potential. Interior corrosion is usually the result of a little entrained water and perhaps a smidgen or two of H2S forming scale nodules at points where there may be a slight imperfection in the pipe material grain boundaries. Bacteria go to work under the scale [ can't remember proper name] formed on the inside of the pipe. Results in a pockmarked surface ending in little pin holes that get bigger. Later resembles Henskin.

It is for this type of incident that diesel engines working around gas systems may be required to have a Positive Air Shutoff.

Egon

mark777 · Sep 24, 2004

It happens too often down here.

There are spot ads on local TV channels that state "call before you dig" 800 numbers and now warning signs with a backhoe icon with the same "Before you dig - statement to call the 800 number.

AND

There are miles of very old pipe, capped and abandoned And not indicated on platt or survey maps. Some still contain H2s04 (hydrogen sulfide gas). Deadly, invisable and oderless.

Egon · Sep 24, 2004

H2S is only odorless in high concentrations because you are down before the smell hits.

Egon

mahlers · Sep 24, 2004

I'm rusty on my chemistry, but isn't H2SO4 sulphuric acid in aqueous form and H2S is hydrogen sulphide in a gaseous state? I guess hydrogen sulphide gas could react with entrained water and form sulphuric acid - which would eat through the walls of metallic pipe. Sorry for the ramble, I'm thinking as I'm writing...

johnk · Sep 24, 2004

The gas company is responsible to be within 18" of the gas line when marking with the yellow flags.
Most Plastic lines have a yellow tracer wire on it that can be picked up by a machine that is used to locate the lines. About 15 years ago when they started using plastic they didn't use the tracer wires when they first started fusing the plastic. One thing very dangerous about a line hit on plastic is the static electricity produced by the rushing gas against the plastic. Most medium pressure lines are from 28 to 32 PSI but there are lines up to 2000# PSI.

DougM · Sep 25, 2004

A short pce of ornge tube and two compreson fittings and all is fixed..
Now I am waitting for the BILL from them
STill trying to get the water line in so I will be looking for more GAS line
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

mark777 · Sep 25, 2004

Wooops, I stand corrected. I have a quick reference emergency response HAZMAT book (can't find it now) that listed them as ..(transposed)...after looking, your not rusty at all. I Must have suffered from another senior moment. Mark

Ronbo · Oct 13, 2004

If they came out and marked the location and it was improperly marked, you are not responsible. They have to bear the cost of repair.

Ron

virgil · Oct 14, 2004

in 1996, I was farming 3600 acres in west texas. I was on some new land that the previous owner had severly neglected.
I started about Christmas with 4 John Deere 8100"s and 4 Baker, 5 bottem switch plows.. We was running all 4 machines 24 hours a day, 6 days a week. DEEP BREAKING about 18 inches deep.
I visited the local gas company who had a low pressure, unstenched (cain't smell it), natural gas line running across about 2 sections of my land. Told them they should come out at find out how deep the line is now. They promptly informed me that that line was a minumam of 36" deep and for me not to worry about it..(yea, right). I told them that we would be crossing that line in about 10 days.
The dirt in that area that was what I call "sugar sand". It moves around with the never ending wind if you do not take care of it.
Plow, plow, plow, work, work, work...
One of my drivers did pass over (or threw) the line one night. The wind was blowing 20 MPH, and he plowed up about a mile and a half of 2 inch natural gas line.. He never knew it. (lucky).
Well I show up the next mourning to help with the changing of tips, wings, blades and drivers. I did not notice the SMALL pieces of orange plastic pipe sticking out of the field.
Then all of a sudden here comes the calvery...er I mean the gas company. with an Archie Bunker as their fearless leader. They were coming around the corner on 2 wheels, and just a "gettin it".... They turn and attempt to run out into the fresh deep broken field and promptly get the first pickup stuck. It gets about 50 yards. The driver realized his mistake, and kills the engine and radio, gently opens the door and proceads to walk away --- upwind. The second pickup has 4 wheel drive and makes it to the first pickup with ease. It has the boss in it. He leaves the engine running, and is a talking on the radio. The third pickup has the "new hired hand" in it. He is not so eager to run out into a deep broken field with a gas leak. (Maby he should be boss ?)
Well, The bosses truck soon catches on fire, which spreads to the first truck.... What a circus show.
Archie, I mean the boss CAN move when he has too!
The new hand shakes his head, and leaves to go start turning off valves to shut the line down.
What a mess. what a show. It was better than Americas Funnest Videos.
We pulled out the burnt pickups a few days latter. The gas boss that I visited in his office, (that started the fire), says he's gonna sue, I tell him to get a number and get in line and wate!
About a week later the Gas company replaces the line, 36" deep, and manages to break a huge underground water main that feeds the city. YES>>> FREE WATER, PLEASE CONTINUE
To make a long story short, gas company breaks the water line, the water co. breaks the gas line, the gas co. breaks the water line...on and on all year long.
Moral of this true story, those underground utilities are seldom where they supposed to be. Call before you dig, and dig where YOU supposed to be.
Did OK that year. Good Lord sent the rain when I needed it and how I needed it. Some free water from the water co. , good crop, plus some money from the gas and water company for tearing up my land and crops all year long.
No one was hurt. Just a few tempers, and pride.

SkyPup · Oct 14, 2004

Wow, that is pretty funny.

Best be careful nowadays though as you could become a suspect terrorist for breaking gas lines, water mains, and such to a city.... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Bird · Oct 14, 2004

( The dirt in that area that was what I call "sugar sand". It moves around with the never ending wind )

Yep, Virgil, and even if isn't sugar sand, erosion definitely changes the depth of buried lines. When I was on the board of directors of our water company, I learned that we had some small water mains actually on top of the ground through some pastures and fields and they were supposedly buried a minimum of 2' when they were installed.

And when I was doing a gas leakage survey west of San Antonio, while we were crossing one plowed field, the gas company guy with me told me that the previous Spring, the farmer had plowed up the gas line. It already had the odorant in it and he knew when he hit it. Fortunately, he also knew where the nearest shut off valve was and he bailed off the tractor and ran to that valve and shut if off himself before calling the gas company.

Currmudgeon · Oct 22, 2004

( I'm rusty on my chemistry, but isn't H2SO4 sulphuric acid in aqueous form and H2S is hydrogen sulphide in a gaseous state? I guess hydrogen sulphide gas could react with entrained water and form sulphuric acid - which would eat through the walls of metallic pipe. Sorry for the ramble, I'm thinking as I'm writing... )

H2SO4 isn't so bad on steel pipe that is full, but it corrodes partially filled pipes and eats concrete like crazy. You get it in stale sewers all the time.

Currmudgeon · Oct 22, 2004

( Call before you dig, and dig where YOU supposed to be. )

It's best to have them come out and mark the lines. If you're concerned, you can call for them to uncover the lines in places, to verify the depth. The gas company is usually pretty good about field locating their lines, because they don't like circuses like yours.

Around here, if they mark the line, it's not where they said it was, and you break it, it's theirs. If you don't have them mark it, it's yours.

DougM · Oct 24, 2004

I have just gotten the BILL from the gas company.....
SUR PRIZE it was $ 86.00 I was looking for a larger one then this first bill I have ever been Happy to pay

DougM /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif