Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ?

[duke7595]

No way absolutely not. Gasoline tractors can never compete with a DIESEL and they don't last near as long..

 

[IHpower]

Here is what the experts say.

"Black carbon particles, found in diesel engine exhaust, are 3,200 times more damaging to the climate than carbon dioxide in the near-term and promote cardiovascular disease and lung cancer."

Recently I had a short discussion with fully indoctrinated climate alarmist, who is obsessed with CO2. Climate can be changed on a continental scale or even world scale by 1 big volcano. Its happened plenty of times in earth's history and is recorded in plain sight for all to analyze.

The big destroyers are ash particles to block sunlight and cover vegetation; and wreck animal respiratory organs (short term, long term for other body organs). Sulfur is a close second behind ash. In the Medieval Ages a volcano in Iceland popped off spewing out massive amounts of sulfurs with ash. This mixed with atmospherical moisture and came down in rain as sulfuric acid across northern Ireland, most of Britain and parts of northern Germany. Crops were midway through growing season so there was no time to replant even if they had the capability. Crops and grass die = starvation for people & animals.

Back to my denier of science and history. He claimed that volcanoes didn't spew out much CO2 so they were not as big a threat as particles blocking sunlight. I'm rarely speechless but occasionally someone is dumb I don't know what to say..

Viking climate history: the Medieval Warm Period began in the late 900's lasting well into the 1400's. This is why Erik the Red was able start his colony on Greenland. He was not pulling a scam as the common legend claims, otherwise he'd been killed. Remember we're talking Vikings!! The Greenland landscape was lush grass and easily supported growing colonies for the next 400+ years.

All was well until a big volcano blew up in the southwest Pacific Ocean region which has hundreds of them. That one big volcano cooled the Northern Hemisphere stopping crop growing in northern regions. The Gulf Stream was "pushed" south and Greenland no longer had the warming waters. Ice began choking water routes and soon stopped supply ships from Norway. Everything went downhill fast. Must've been the CO2 gases.

 

[duke7595]

There was a time when diesels were the simplest motors. They were entirely mechanical without any electrical systems or carburetors. Gas engines were better at just about everything else, and much less expensive because of the lower compression ratio.
I liked the gasoline industrial engines. They ran wonderfully smoothly at low RPM and started easily. Easy to maintain and rebuild. Lasted just as long as diesels. A much quieter engine and easy to control emissions.
I don't see any great advantage to today's diesels. For most things, the gasoline engines do better.
rScotty

I don't know what gas tractor (s) your talking about, however, no gas tractor will outlast a good diesel tractor period!!

 

[torch1]

Looks like lots of interest in this topic
A couple of points here, diesel is cheaper to make than gas as the refining process is simpler so manufacturing cost is not a factor.
Diesel is not bullet proof, it actually develops microbes called fuel bugs, do a google search on(fuel bugs) develops in 10- 12 months of storage.
You need to be aware of winter and summer diesel fuel, more so in northern states and all of Canada. The summer fuel will wax up you fuel filter if you get summer fuel in winter time, always worthwhile to carry spare fuel filters if you have a diesel powered RV or pickup truck. The winter fuel gives you less power, as an average 5% less depending on the specific gravity of the fuel.
My opinion of price increases is quite simple government tax grabs and gouging by the oil companies, notice the profits for the oil companies in the past 3 years.
Something I noticed a lack of or even mention in these articals is no mention of service intervals and if you want any engine to live, all filter‘s and oil changes, valve sets must be kept up and maintained. Servicing is the cheapest way to maintain any vehicle, do not shortcut on this or lengthen the time between changes.
I used to work for Caterpillar and was very surprised when they basically got out of the Highway Truck Market, my take on this, no proof, was the pending changes to the EPA codes and rules for emissions. Cat spent a lot of years and money getting to be the # 1 truck engine and to just drop out all together has to tell you something.
With all the chatter about emissions I am truly amazed there is no government in Canada, either federal or provincial that is currently doing any exhaust emissions testing.

if we are all concerned with carbon levels why are we doing no testing and therefore where are our supposed experts getting there reference material from? Ever try and get a straight and factual answer from any politician?

Electric vehicles need to be improved greatly before they will survive and be feasible in many many of end user markets. As an example this week one morning was -40, think an electric vehicle will handle that and operate at peak efficiency?

Sorry for the length of this

 

[RandR10]

With the high prices of diesel fuel , & possible shortages looming are manufactures considering bringing back gasoline engines that have become more efficient than the ones from 50 to 60 years ago ! & the EV tractors are starting prove themselves not reliable in extreme weather conditions , & the power grid is not there in rural areas & not to mention operating cost ! The diesel engine is still the most efficient as far as fuel consumption , But having to meet stronger emission standards allot of owners are not happy with the regens & having to run def in there tractor of 25 HP or more which adds more to operating cost & efficiency ! In summary would you consider buying a new gasoline engine tractor instead of a EV tractor ! Or as a substitute for a diesel if they were available ? Just a thought .

I purchased an old Massey 204 for some of the reasons you listed, but now that I sold that machine and now own a smaller diesel Kioti I prefer the diesel. Even with the extra fuel costs I still spend less on fuel with the DH1101 engine vs. the Z134. While the Continental had reliability to rival diesels it was a pig on fuel and ran rich no matter what I did with the carb. I'm sure a more modern fuel injected gas engine that starts instantly and is way more efficient like modern car engines might sway me back the other way, but the compact tractors that Cub Cadet made a few years back with a horizontal Briggs or Kohler v-twin wouldn't do it. Those are like 1k hour engines while the diesels can get closer to 10k hours with proper maintenance. If the price disparity for diesel remains we might eventually see some offerings that tick all the right boxes.

 

[RandR10]

"Emissions from diesels are not worse than the emissions from a gas engine, they are just different and more visible."

Here is what the experts say.

"Black carbon particles, found in diesel engine exhaust, are 3,200 times more damaging to the climate than carbon dioxide in the near-term and promote cardiovascular disease and lung cancer."

Cleaning Up Diesel Exhaust Improves Both Health & Climate

A new World Bank study summarizes a menu of technical and policy options already demonstrated to cut the health and climate risks from diesel emissions.

www.worldbank.org

I might be wrong but I think Eric Nora, the author of the linked article, may not be an actual expert based on what he's saying. Given how politicized climate science has become I wouldn't believe anything unless it was in an actual peer reviewed journal article, and even then I would approach with skepticism weighed against an entire body of evidence. I studied climate science in undergrad (albeit on an introductory level because my concentration was in environmental studies, so take what I say with that in mind) and my understanding from that coursework is that small carbon particles in fact do the opposite of a greenhouse gas or at the very least any warming effects are offset because they will seed clouds when released into the atmosphere and increase cloud cover. There may be other emissions from burning diesel that increase greenhouse gases above an beyond an equivalent gasoline engine, but carbon particles are not doing it. At the very least, that 3200x claim is almost certainly either made up or he's misunderstanding what he's been told. I would certainly be interested to see where he got that info from. Here's a recent article discussing it:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.2001674117

The claims about localized pollution on diesel are correct though. It's much worse for air quality in population centers.

Also, the total amount of carbon dioxide released is a bit higher for diesel than with gasoline. Even though your fuel consumption is lower for diesel, it's because the hydrocarbons are longer and the fuel is more energy dense. Still, it takes a bit more carbon from diesel fuel to make the same amount of power, so they emit more CO2 (but like 12%, not 3200x).

 

[bowenskye]

Diesel would have to get pretty high for me to go to gas. Maybe if they had made some good fuel injected gas tractors during the sweet spot in the 80's / early 90's.
All of my experience with gas tractors has been with points and condensers. I don't care to go back. I can't imagine a modern gas engine being any good at all, when it comes to repairs requiring unavailable chips

 

[RandR10]

I don't know what gas tractor (s) your talking about, however, no gas tractor will outlast a good diesel tractor period!!

The Massey 204 I mentioned above (one of the two I had) had a Z134 Continental gas engine with somewhere north of 11,000 hours on it and was still chugging along. I'd say that is at least the equal of any diesel I've ever seen.

 

[Hotpot]

i really like my gas'er. 1974 international 354. I find it to be fuel efficient and easy to work on. I dont think id take a new tractor over it, even if it was given to me. Lots of cast iron.

 

[can do]

I purchased an old Massey 204 for some of the reasons you listed, but now that I sold that machine and now own a smaller diesel Kioti I prefer the diesel. Even with the extra fuel costs I still spend less on fuel with the DH1101 engine vs. the Z134. While the Continental had reliability to rival diesels it was a pig on fuel and ran rich no matter what I did with the carb. I'm sure a more modern fuel injected gas engine that starts instantly and is way more efficient like modern car engines might sway me back the other way, but the compact tractors that Cub Cadet made a few years back with a horizontal Briggs or Kohler v-twin wouldn't do it. Those are like 1k hour engines while the diesels can get closer to 10k hours with proper maintenance. If the price disparity for diesel remains we might eventually see some offerings that tick all the right boxes.

I have a 1959 M-F 50 with a Z134 continental gasoline engine 4 cylinder 34 HP, & I put in a electronic ignition it so has cut the need for tune ups , & replacement of spark plug last twice as long ! & it does consume way more fuel than my 2018 M-F 1526 with a 3 cylinder Iseki diesel 25 HP , & it weighs over 1,000 lbs. less ! Of course you really can't compare the two ! But You & some others did get what the hypothetical thread was about , If you needed to buy a new tractor today would you buy a gasoline tractor over a diesel if it where comparable ? & a E tractor is just not a option as of yet !