GC 2600 Has anyone replaced the control valve line filter?

[Dinico]

Hi, long time reader, first time poster.

I have a GC2600, bought used with about 400 hours on it. A great machine. Now has 650 hours. I have developed a constant whining sound that has gotten louder over time. Makes me anxious.

I pinpointed the sound is coming from the solid steel hydraulic line that connects to the PTO engage lever. #11 on the diagram. Used a mechanics stethoscope and it nearly blew out my eardrums. The sound is the same no matter the RPMs or whether the PTO is engaged or not.

I just changed the hydraulic filter, fluid, and cleaned suction filter. Cut the filter open. No metal or debris in filter. Suction filter was clean. Very slight shimmer of metal in the fluid. Fluid looked good, wasn't burnt. Last changed at 500 hours.

I used a NAPA gold cross-referenced filter at 500 hours. Replaced with OEM AgCo filter.

The noise was quieter, but still persists from the same line. Has anyone had to replace the valve (#12 on diegram) part# 4265235M2 on the PTO engage lever? Can't find a picture of the actual valve. It's $44, so may be worth changing.

Not sure if this is related to my whining sound, but the other thing I found in the parts book is a line filter (#16 on the second diagram) part # 3757286M2 sandwhiched between the control valve and the pump. The pumps connects to the block near where the #11 PTO line connects to the block. Interesting place for a tiny screen filter. I found a pic of the underside of the control valve showing the line filter location. Has anyone ever cleaned or replaced this $24 filter?

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.

 

[Dinico]

Here's a bit more info on this line filter. From what I've found, nearly all GC series tractors have this filter and many other MF tractors. I searched the internet for any thread or mention of anyone replacing it. There are dozens of listings selling this part. 3757286M1 then was superceded to 3757286M2. Pic is below.

Really, wanted a second opinion on whether to bother changing it since it would require some serious effort. Here's a pic of the filter.

 

[5030]

Clean, don't change it. Those filters are designed to be cleaned in clean diesel fuel and /or clean paint thinner, blown off and put back in. Whining is typical of any hydro and can increase if you use the wrong or cheap fluid or extend the change intervals way past the recommended change interval, something I never do as cheap fluid can lack the proper additives to prolong seal life. Even the pump on one of my gear drive hydraulic shuttle tractors whine and always has. I ignore it and chalk it up to the previous owner who most likely didn't change the fluid at the proper interval, but my whine is coming from the orbital steering motor as all Kubota's use an orbital motor to control steering.

Soon as I bought the used one (4K hours), I did a complete fuiid and filter change and used genuine Kubota filters, not aftermarket as well as the air filters, again, genuine Kubota. Buying any used equipment ine never knows if the previous owner adhered to the change intervals of if he even used the correct fluid so wgy take the chance, just change everything and grease it as well.

My Kubota's both require 15 gallons each to change the fluid and no Tractor supply cheapo juice either, you always get what you pay for and cheap is always suspect.

I use Chevron All Weather synthetic THC which actually costs more than Kubota SUDT per gallon but the THC exceeds the Kubota OEM fluid. I depend on them bith for running hay and doind other tasks so I don't leave anything to chance. At 125 bucks a pail, not a cheap date by a long shot.

I've had the whine in the one unit all along and I ignore it. When and if it fails-breaks, I change out the offending part and continue on. Mine is way more pronounced in cold weather actually. Below freezing especially. The other one that I bought new has never whined at all and the whine is actually the pump causing vibration in the fluid that is amplified by the steel lines that carry the fluid to the components. On mine, the pump alone is well over a thousand bucks and not rebuildable so when it pukes, I'll buy a new one and install it.

If I were you, I'd ignore it until it fails and then replace the failed components.

 

[dicktill]

Hi, long time reader, first time poster.

I have a GC2600, bought used with about 400 hours on it. A great machine. Now has 650 hours. I have developed a constant whining sound that has gotten louder over time. Makes me anxious.

I pinpointed the sound is coming from the solid steel hydraulic line that connects to the PTO engage lever. #11 on the diagram. Used a mechanics stethoscope and it nearly blew out my eardrums. The sound is the same no matter the RPMs or whether the PTO is engaged or not.

I just changed the hydraulic filter, fluid, and cleaned suction filter. Cut the filter open. No metal or debris in filter. Suction filter was clean. Very slight shimmer of metal in the fluid. Fluid looked good, wasn't burnt. Last changed at 500 hours.

I used a NAPA gold cross-referenced filter at 500 hours. Replaced with OEM AgCo filter.

The noise was quieter, but still persists from the same line. Has anyone had to replace the valve (#12 on diegram) part# 4265235M2 on the PTO engage lever? Can't find a picture of the actual valve. It's $44, so may be worth changing.

Not sure if this is related to my whining sound, but the other thing I found in the parts book is a line filter (#16 on the second diagram) part # 3757286M2 sandwhiched between the control valve and the pump. The pumps connects to the block near where the #11 PTO line connects to the block. Interesting place for a tiny screen filter. I found a pic of the underside of the control valve showing the line filter location. Has anyone ever cleaned or replaced this $24 filter?

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.

Here's a bit more info on this line filter. From what I've found, nearly all GC series tractors have this filter and many other MF tractors. I searched the internet for any thread or mention of anyone replacing it. There are dozens of listings selling this part. 3757286M1 then was superceded to 3757286M2. Pic is below.

Really, wanted a second opinion on whether to bother changing it since it would require some serious effort. Here's a pic of the filter.

Welcome to the forum.

My later model GC1723EB is plumbed a bit different with that PTO supply line routed internally via drilled passageways in the transaxle housing, but the system works the same. (see How Massey Ferguson GC 1723 & 1725 hydraulics are plumbed) I am aware of the filter/screen between the control valve and the pump but have never accessed that.

One possible candidate is the PTO relief valve which is oddly located by the hydraulic oil filter; it will be items 6-7-8 on your first diagram and should be easy to access.

 

[Dinico]

Thanks for that advice.

Clean, don't change it. Those filters are designed to be cleaned in clean diesel fuel and /or clean paint thinner, blown off and put back in. Whining is typical of any hydro and can increase if you use the wrong or cheap fluid or extend the change intervals way past the recommended change interval, something I never do as cheap fluid can lack the proper additives to prolong seal life. Even the pump on one of my gear drive hydraulic shuttle tractors whine and always has. I ignore it and chalk it up to the previous owner who most likely didn't change the fluid at the proper interval, but my whine is coming from the orbital steering motor as all Kubota's use an orbital motor to control steering.

Soon as I bought the used one (4K hours), I did a complete fuiid and filter change and used genuine Kubota filters, not aftermarket as well as the air filters, again, genuine Kubota. Buying any used equipment ine never knows if the previous owner adhered to the change intervals of if he even used the correct fluid so wgy take the chance, just change everything and grease it as well.

My Kubota's both require 15 gallons each to change the fluid and no Tractor supply cheapo juice either, you always get what you pay for and cheap is always suspect.

I use Chevron All Weather synthetic THC which actually costs more than Kubota SUDT per gallon but the THC exceeds the Kubota OEM fluid. I depend on them bith for running hay and doind other tasks so I don't leave anything to chance. At 125 bucks a pail, not a cheap date by a long shot.

I've had the whine in the one unit all along and I ignore it. When and if it fails-breaks, I change out the offending part and continue on. Mine is way more pronounced in cold weather actually. Below freezing especially. The other one that I bought new has never whined at all and the whine is actually the pump causing vibration in the fluid that is amplified by the steel lines that carry the fluid to the components. On mine, the pump alone is well over a thousand bucks and not rebuildable so when it pukes, I'll buy a new one and install it.

If I were you, I'd ignore it until it fails and then replace the failed components.

Thanks for the advice. After some research, just on the hydraulic filter I found that there are a few variations that cross-referenced to the OEM filter, but the number of inlet holes varied. 8, 5, or 6. They could very well be the same specs though.

6 is the AGCO OEM filter from the dealer.

 

[Dinico]

Welcome to the forum.

My later model GC1723EB is plumbed a bit different with that PTO supply line routed internally via drilled passageways in the transaxle housing, but the system works the same. (see How Massey Ferguson GC 1723 & 1725 hydraulics are plumbed) I am aware of the filter/screen between the control valve and the pump but have never accessed that.

One possible candidate is the PTO relief valve which is oddly located by the hydraulic oil filter; it will be items 6-7-8 on your first diagram and should be easy to access.

I had actually read your post a couple of times previously. It was one of the only mentions I found about the "line filter" after discovering it in the parts book.

So that's the PTO relief valve. The parts book called them spring, ball, and body.

I'm really not feeling up to cleaning that tiny "line screen". Where the gear pump connects to the transmission is directly next to where the solid steel line from the PTO clutch lever connects. That line being the source of the constant whining.

I assume that the gear pump runs constantly which could be causing the excess whining. There are times when I start the tractor and there's no whining. Usually after it's been unused for several days or when I change the fluid. But it always comes back.

I wonder if that "line filter" has some debris that settles out, then gets pushed back in after running. I may be over thinking it.

I'm don't know how the PTO clutch engage lever valve works internally. Or if they are known to be faulty. It's just a snap ring holding it together. Would rather examine it than tear down the tractor to get to the "line filter". There shouldn't be anything in the line filter because it looks like it's directly after the suction filter.

 

[5030]

On oil filters, it really don't matter how many holes there are in the bulkhead end. so long as there is enough to pass the oil in an efficient manner. You'd be amazed at how oil filters are made. Prior to retirement, I regulary delivered strip steel to an outfit in Cleveland, Ohio thst made oil filters for many different brands. They actually were all the same inside, only the outer case color changed and the labelling and they would brand change on the fly, different paint applied as well as different labels without ever stopping the line at all. All they made were oil filters for everyone.

 

[DMW]

Sounds more like the tractor hydraulic fluid you are using. Do you know the Viscosity Index of the hydro oil?

 

[cdaigle430]

Am I missing something here? All GC2400s and 2300s have at least some whining sound from the transmission and its normal.

 

[Dinico]

I was trying to determine if I was missing something and if anyone had cleaned the "line screen" or replaced the PTO clutch engage lever valve which is where my whining noise is coming from.

 

[Dinico]

Sounds more like the tractor hydraulic fluid you are using. Do you know the Viscosity Index of the hydro oil?

That could be very possible too. The Viscosity Index of the hydro oil is 145.

 

[DMW]

Seems like your using a decent semi-synthetic. Symptoms sound like overheating of the hydro fluid. Common causes would be damaged cooling fan (on GCs attached to driveshaft) or continuous pouring over the relief valve. Hydro whine is quite common, very noticeable when driving in high range. Should check the linkages for the 3pt lift and PTO to ensure they are shifting fully, and not getting hung up on anything. Off by a bit, they may produce no movement but allow oil flow over the relief valve or deadheading. When you have the tractor out, and you notice the whine, fiddle with the levers a bit, see if there is any change. Since you checked the solid lines, I assume they are not dented/bent.

 

[Dinico]

I have witnessed a potential clue to what's causing my excessive hydro whine. But not really sure why it happening.

Today, when my daughter started mowing, I spend a few minutes walking behind the her listening to any noise changes. (She hates it, lol. Doesn't like someone standing over her shoulder. I wouldn't want me standing over my shoulder either. Haha)

Had her mow in rabbit and turtle, with and without 4WD, raise/lower FEL while mowing, raise/lower deck while mowing as I watched the eyeglass and listened. Hydro oil looked normal doing each. Fluctuations in eyeglass were normal. The whining sound stayed the same. But if I put pressure with my finger on the steel line that connects to the PTO engage lever, the whining is considerably quieter.

So, after about 30-40 minutes, had her stop and we took temps of hydraulic filter, lines, hydro pump, fittings, mower spindles, everything. It's good learning for her to know the tractor and diagnose any potential issues.

Nothing stood out as far as temps. Hydro pump was 135⁰F. Hydraulic filter 125⁰. Lines 110⁰-125⁰. Spindles and mower gear box was 105⁰-120⁰. Was about 80⁰ today. Hydro oil in eyeglass was at normal level. Point of reference(Normal level for my tractor is around 3-4mm above half with all pressure relieves from FEL and 3point hitch/deck)

She kept on mowing, I went to work in the garden. Sometime 15-30 minutes later she made a pass by the garden and I decided to follow and check the eyeglass.

At first glance from 10 foot away, it looked off, really cloudy. Had her immediately shut it down. Looking closer, it shimmered like if glitter was in the oil. (Slight panic and sickish feeling comes over me.) Now we are both on hands and knees, Sherlock Holmes like, describing to eachother what we are seeing. The shimmer was micro-bubbles. Slowly rising into a layer resembling foam and larger bubbles at the top of the eyeglass and a perfectly clear layer formed at the bottom as the air settled out. Within a few minutes, the oil was as clear as new oil and at normal level.

I checked all of the temps looking for an obvious hot part, connection, line, fitting, or area that may have caused the cavitation. Everything was the same temps as above. I even changed the batteries in the thermometer because I couldn't believe that the overall temps didn't increase.

No obvious leaks, so she drove it to the barn and I did a thorough check for anywhere that may be drawing air or leaking. Removed the deck. I even took the back wheels off to get a real good look.

Point of reference: I washed the tractor prior to changing the hydro filter, engine oil, fuel filter, air filter last week. Cleaned radiator screen, all the quick connects. I disconnected/reconnect the quick connects at that time too.

All control levers seem to full engage or disengage properly.

That's my rundown. Really appreciate everyone that has take the time to read this. Any advice or suggestions would be a blessing.

I'm think, replace the O-rings on the suction filter. Maybe the O-ring on the pickup tub to the hydraulic pump. I tightened the hose clamps on the jumper hose a couple of turns last week. Maybe replace the clamps and the hose. Possibly get some hydro oil dye and add it?

Could I be pulling in air and not having leaks?

Thanks

 

[Dinico]

Update after checking things over. No leaks found. Went out to mow and after taking a couple of passes checked the hydro level to see it as described about. Cloudy and foamy. And after 2 minutes setting at idle at about 1000 rpm the air settled out and fluid was clear in eyeglass.

If never seen foamy, cloudy fluid in eyeglass before.
Anyone else ever see this?

 

[hube2]

Update after checking things over. No leaks found. Went out to mow and after taking a couple of passes checked the hydro level to see it as described about. Cloudy and foamy. And after 2 minutes setting at idle at about 1000 rpm the air settled out and fluid was clear in eyeglass.

If never seen foamy, cloudy fluid in eyeglass before.
Anyone else ever see this?

How long, if at all, did you allow the tractor to warm up before you started mowing?

 

[DMW]

It is very easy to pinch an o-ring on the suction filter. The early ones were made of plastic, very easy to crack if over-torqued. Part has been superseded by a metal filter. There is some aeration of the hydraulic fluid when it returns to tank, very normal.

 

[cdaigle430]

Looks like water in the oil? Foam in hydraulic fluid-

• Contamination in the form of either water, solids, or even grease
• Cross-contamination with the wrong type of fluid
• Excessive aeration of the hydraulic fluid (which is usually a mechanical issue)
• A reduction in pump output efficiency

 

[Dinico]

How long, if at all, did you allow the tractor to warm up before you started mowing?

Like 3 to 5 minutes on the first start of the day. Rest of the day when starting, I let the tractor build some pressure for a minute before raising FEL and deck. I always relieve all pressure from FEL and deck when powering down.

Usual routine: First time starting tractor for the day, I check the oil and hydro oil level. Start it and let it run for a few minutes while doing a walk around. Kick the tires, once over for leaks, glance at tie-rods and steering cylinder, FEL quick connects, behind each rear tire, 3 pt hitch, hit the roller deck wheels with some grease if need, and check that mower blades in neutral turn freely by hand.

Same routine whether, mowing, tilling, or whatever.

 

[Dinico]

It is very easy to pinch an o-ring on the suction filter. The early ones were made of plastic, very easy to crack if over-torqued. Part has been superseded by a metal filter. There is some aeration of the hydraulic fluid when it returns to tank, very normal.

Your right. The plastic ones can break easily if over-torqued. Broke it shortly after getting the tractor. That's been about 4 years ago.

Very careful with new one and O-ring alignment. On recent filter/fluid change O-rings looked OK. Not smashed.

How often to change those? I've read that the rubber hose after the suction filter can draw air and not be leaking fluid. Mine doesn't leak but the rubber feels soft.

I've monitored the hydro level while my daughter is mowing for years. It's has always been as clear as if it was parked. I've never seen a single air bubble.

Speaking of filter. I was triple checking today for possible leaks and there was a single drop of clean clear hydro fluid on the filter. Took the deck off to get a close look.

Not a drop of fluid on the fliter guard though. I had the filter hand tight plus a turn. I couldn't tighten it any more by hand. Got the filter wrench and gave it a quarter turn. Sharpened and balanced the blades while it was off.
Will try it tomorrow, if aeration persists.

Could the filter have been the cause for the air? I couldn't be that lucky.

 

[hube2]

The reason I asked about warming up is that I've seen bubbles in my glass in the past, but only when it very cold and it goes away when the hydro warms up. My limited understanding is that cooling fluid can absorb air and heating the fluid releases the trapped air causing the bubbles.