GC cold weather start ??

[AxleHub]

Since you seem to be asking, my reason is, I don't believe my engine is of such poor quality, that starting it cold occasionally, is going to do serious harm.

I also don't care to be ripped off by MF, paying 5x the going rate, for a block heater I personally don't need.

So, do you also have a heater on your tractors transmission fluid? They greatly reduce hydraulic pump wear, and engine wear, due to excessive warmup periods in cold weather.

How about block heaters, and transmission warmers on your car engines? Doesn't cold starting wear them too?

Do you have pre-oilers on your vehicles, and equipment? They greatly reduce engine wear on start up. Even more than a block heater could ever do.

So, as you can see, it's all a calculated risk, which can only be avoided by not starting it at all.

Ray, you can also not maintain your unit as long as you don't use it anyway. . . same false logic. I use certain types of engine oil and diesel oil and hydraulic fluid for reasons. . not avoidance. I use an engine block heater on my truck and my tractor during harsh weather overnight. Both truck and tractor block heaters were included by their dealers at no additional charge because they understand it makes their maintenance and service work easier. Maybe your dealer wants to charge you a lot for a block heater because of your attitude. . . not the cost of the block heater. Or maybe your Ohio winters are alot more gentle temperatures than ours. I just learned long ago that good negotiation is alot more than just "bark and bite".

 

[ray66v]

Ray, you can also not maintain your unit as long as you don't use it anyway. . . same false logic. I use certain types of engine oil and diesel oil and hydraulic fluid for reasons. . not avoidance. I use an engine block heater on my truck and my tractor during harsh weather overnight. Both truck and tractor block heaters were included by their dealers at no additional charge because they understand it makes their maintenance and service work easier. Maybe your dealer wants to charge you a lot for a block heater because of your attitude. . . not the cost of the block heater. Or maybe your Ohio winters are alot more gentle temperatures than ours. I just learned long ago that good negotiation is alot more than just "bark and bite".

"No additional charge", lol, now that's false logic. So you know, that means the price of it was included.

Ask your dealer friend, and he can explain to you that they get over charged for the block heaters, too. There isn't much mark up on accessories.

The heater is made by a company for MF, probably Kats, and apparently a deal was made that they would only be sold through MF dealers, because that's the only way you can get one. And, since they have the only one, the price is ridiculous.

You make some ignorant assumptions about my relationship with my dealer. So you know, I never asked them for a block heater. I don't need one.

I tried to show you, using the same logic you used, that you are actually doing the same thing, you were wondering about.

Clearly, you refuse to accept that.

 

[AxleHub]

"No additional charge", lol, now that's false logic. So you know, that means the price of it was included.

Ask your dealer friend, and he can explain to you that they get over charged for the block heaters, too. There isn't much mark up on accessories.

The heater is made by a company for MF, probably Kats, and apparently a deal was made that they would only be sold through MF dealers, because that's the only way you can get one. And, since they have the only one, the price is ridiculous.

You make some ignorant assumptions about my relationship with my dealer. So you know, I never asked them for a block heater. I don't need one.

I tried to show you, using the same logic you used, that you are actually doing the same thing, you were wondering about.

Clearly, you refuse to accept that.

I fail to grasp your method of reasoning based on continued assumptions. How did I "know" a block heater is provided by the dealer at no cost? It's really really simple Ray. We negotiated the price and terms which did not include an engine block heater. Everything was resolved and then they told me they would include one at no cost. How does it get any plainer for you?

As to the idea of logic. If an owner wants to address benefiting the unit for longevity you start in a very predictable order:

1. Affordability
2. Condition/location = cold or hot temperature locations etc. Etc.
3. What can be done as choices of fluids (before equipment).
4. Equipment condition
5. Accessories

6. Now in very cold temps you focus in the above order and then provide heat to the FIRST choice which is creating heat in the engine which then heats and powers all other functions

This Fluid choices to benefit cold starting is a focus after affordability, then accessory that helps get heat creating in the engine. . Thusblock heater to pee warm. . then start engine to begin creating heat to everything else.

Alllllllllll the other items you list at length are after everything I list. A transmission heater is false logic because you have to get the engine running 1st or it doesn't matter. Correct hydraulic fluid choices and oil choice for cold weather. . . happen even earlier to make engine warm up and fluid warm up improved.

And if all you can afford or prioritize in really cold weather is starting the tractor with none of the items I've listed in minus 10 degree weather. . . that's your decision too.

As to dealers actually "givng" customers something. . . . Yes Ray, some really do because they understand it can benefit them too and not because of a markup. If they don't do it for you. . then maybe they don't feel very giving to you. My career has taken me to some of the finest negotiators in their industries. And most of them that artists at it. . . Not hardballers. And those I've met that are excellent at it have very positive personalities. . . Not hard personalities.

If a dealer wants to give me something at no cost to me. . . I smile, accept it, and say thank you. You want to doubt it. . . and why would a business want to really give something to a prospect that doubts their intentions? The answer is. . . they wouldn't.

Have an engine block heater. . . . don't have an engine block heater. . . It makes no difference to me.

 

[ray66v]

If what you say is true, we can surmise that, your dealer just gave you $100+ parts and labor, out of his pocket, after the deal was made, because perhaps he thought you were such a great guy.

Or, conversely, he felt guilty for taking advantage of you, on the tractor.

When are you going to have him put a pre-oiler put on it? Perhaps he won't charge you for that either?

 

[AxleHub]

If what you say is true, we can surmise that, your dealer just gave you $100+ parts and labor, out of his pocket, after the deal was made, because perhaps he thought you were such a great guy.

Or, conversely, he felt guilty for taking advantage of you, on the tractor.

When are you going to have him put a pre-oiler put on it? Perhaps he won't charge you for that either?

Or the dealer may have done it because it's a good business decision on their part. I mention because you wouldn't Ray.

And I know you've read this before on some of my other threads I've been on but others maybe haven't. When I was in the process of buying my gc1715 I contacted a dozen dealers. Then my wife and I went to visit the three most in consideration, and that way we could evaluate people . . .not prices. And yes Ray, you can get great product with good price, with really nice people that are smart, skilled, and supportive.

 

[buickanddeere]

Just plug in the block heater

 

[Snobdds]

Just plug in the block heater

Or don't. :confused3:

 

[ray66v]

Or the dealer may have done it because it's a good business decision on their part. I mention because you wouldn't Ray.

And I know you've read this before on some of my other threads I've been on but others maybe haven't. When I was in the process of buying my gc1715 I contacted a dozen dealers. Then my wife and I went to visit the three most in consideration, and that way we could evaluate people . . .not prices. And yes Ray, you can get great product with good price, with really nice people that are smart, skilled, and supportive.

No, I hadn't read it. Why would I?

You go off on tangents, and make convoluted arguments, to try and make me wrong.

I never argued you can't find, "a great product, at a great price, with really nice people that are smart, skilled, and supportive".

I'm glad you had the time to put 12 different dealerships through that kind of process. And that you think you can tell how someone really is, by just meeting them, or talking to them. I can tell you, based on what you think you know my business practices, you are not very good at it.

 

[buickanddeere]

Or don't. :confused3:

Just makes good sense. Reduced

 

[buickanddeere]

How do some people come up with the idea that a block heater is a conspiracy against them by the manufacture or dealer ? Engine wear is the highest when cylinder walls are cold with coolant temps below 180F. The same person that is all worried about engine wear and changes the oil and filter at reduced hours. Is all too often the same person who doesn't use a block heater but hammers an engine to life in the winter with ether , jumper cables or long duration use of glowplugs/intake grid heaters.
Your ears will tell you that a stone cold diesel rattling and hammering is less desirable than a preheated diesel that starts on the first turn and operates smooth.
Less wear on the starter, battery and alternator.
Windshield defroster operates sooner without wasting fuel and causing increased engine while idling waiting for cab heat.
We plug the gas vehicles in, even though they start without preheating just to have near instant heat from the windshield defroster.