GC2300 loss of PTO power

[ChemEng]

A couple of weeks ago I noticed that when using the MMM the mower would not fully stop turning (it was turning at a reduced speed) after disengaging the PTO. It would only stop after throwing the mid PTO selector ever to the off position. Then after attempting to move the mid PTO lever to the on position with the PTO set to off and the tractor running the gears would grind. It was as if the PTO was still slowly turning internally.

Fast forward to yesterday. I began mowing the yard. All was going well until about 20 minutes into the mow when I noticed the MMM started to bog down and eventually nearly stop when it encountered uncut grass. After I stopped and the deck cleared the cut grass the mower blades would slowly speed back up to operating speed. It became unusable this way. I placed my hand on the hydraulic filter and it felt very warm to me although I don't recall ever checking to see how warm it gets while in use.

Are these two issues related? Is the loss of power due to the fluid getting too hot?

 

[irvingj]

I don't think the filter being "very warm" is a problem -- that's normal, IMO.

When engaging the mower, I always follow this sequence (disengage reverse):
1) slow to idle
2) Slide forward PTO lever to "2000"
3) Slide main PTO lever to "engage."

Sometimes the gears will grind when I try to slide the "2000" lever in; I back that off, then briefly slide the "engage" lever in, then back out. After that, I can slide the 2000 lever in with no problem.

There is a rudimentary clutch in that PTO mechanism, but that's internal, I believe -- hope that's not your problem.

You may wish to look over carefully the mechanical parts --levers & arms, beneath the floor/left rear wheel well-- connected to the "engage" lever -- perhaps something is worn or loose there so it's not going completely into position.

 

[Dmacleo]

worn/sticking linkage could also explain the mower not fully stopping when main pto lever slid to off position
edit: pto is a wet clutch that can be partially engaged.

 

[DMW]

As all the above have mentioned, check for sticking linkages. My GC2300 has started to bind a bit when selecting the PTO. The Mid and Rear selection levers are starting to stick under the fender, will move together, not independently. The deck slow down may be a belt slipping. Check tensioner/spring, even the condition of the splines of the mower deck driveshaft.

Also check the pin connecting the pto shaft to the gearbox. There is also a key on the gearbox output shaft on the center blade. Sometimes friction is enough to get it spinning.

 

[ray66v]

I agree with Irving, that filter is going to be pretty warm. It's really hard to determine if it's above the normal range, by a subjective interpretation.

 

[ChemEng]

I have not discovered any slipping belts or broken pins. Another observation, with the tractor running and the PTO off, if I move the rear PTO lever to ON the rear PTO will turn, albeit not at full speed, even though the PTO is off.

Also with the tractor off, PTO off, and the rear PTO selector ON, the rear output shaft turns freely by hand. If my memory serves me right the rear output shaft never turned freely under these circumstances. Same with the mid PTO.

This is all leading me to believe the PTO clutch has failed.

 

[irvingj]

First observation/situation: it may be that the PTO shaft will turn just due to hydraulic fluid swirling around in there. Yes, it would be slow, and I bet you could stop it easily with any resistance applied to it.

Second observation/situation: Is this also with the "Engage" lever -- not the "2000," not the "540," but the inboard one -- (is this the one you call the "PTO On/Off" lever?) pushed forward to the engage position?

I don't think there's a mechanical connection unless and until two levers (front/rear -- 540 or 2000 -- and the engage lever) are both pushed forward.

 

[cdaigle430]

Also(and I have done this) make sure when mowing you are on low not high when using PTO attachments.

 

[Dmacleo]

Also(and I have done this) make sure when mowing you are on low not high when using PTO attachments.

heh heh....not saying I use high range and engage cruise control while mowing but......

 

[hube2]

heh heh....not saying I use high range and engage cruise control while mowing but......

I have tried high range but my lawn is so bumpy I thought my kidneys were going to bounce out. But it did not affect the power to the deck.

Overall, after following this I think the OP is correct in the assessment that the wet clutch is shot.

 

[Dmacleo]

yeah really is looking like that. its either that or the whole hydro system is losing pressure. don't have time to dig into service manual right now (2300 and 2400 use,iirc, same parts/specs) but if I get a chance tomorrow I will post the service manual again.
fwiw a plugged suction intake filter (behind left rear tire) can cause a crapload of issues.

 

[hube2]

I've looked at my service manual. Replacing the wet clutch involves spitting the tractor. That's not something I'd be able to do. Probably looking at a couple thousand $ fix, maybe more.

 

[Dmacleo]

I've looked at my service manual. Replacing the wet clutch involves spitting the tractor. That's not something I'd be able to do. Probably looking at a couple thousand $ fix, maybe more.

if that is actually the issue.never assume.if it were MY tractor I would blindly replace the suction intake filter and then drive on from there. but thats just me.

 

[WranglerX]

First observation/situation: it may be that the PTO shaft will turn just due to hydraulic fluid swirling around in there. Yes, it would be slow, and I bet you could stop it easily with any resistance applied to it.

Second observation/situation: Is this also with the "Engage" lever -- not the "2000," not the "540," but the inboard one -- (is this the one you call the "PTO On/Off" lever?) pushed forward to the engage position?

I don't think there's a mechanical connection unless and until two levers (front/rear -- 540 or 2000 -- and the engage lever) are both pushed forward.

View attachment 870165

Just for clarity the two lower levers in picture (2000 & 540 ) go rearwards to engage either or both PTO's.... The upper lever is the clutch engagement and it move forward to engage PTO's....

 

[hube2]

True, I would try everything else first. Change all the filters and hydro oil and see what happens. But I would be preparing myself for the worst.

It seems that if there was something wrong with the mower bad enough to slow it down that would have some effect on the engine and not just loose power to the deck. If there was something else wrong with the HST then I would expect that to affect how movement speed as well and would cause other loss of power, not just the PTO.

With the PTO lever 540 or 2000 engaged you should not be able to turn that PTO by hand. This is not affected by in any way by the main PTO lever.

It could also be something in the linkage and the PTOs are not being fully engaged. But there is nothing external that can be adjusted and that would still mean splitting the tractor to see what's actually wrong.

 

[Dmacleo]

wranglerx raises a good point. I just got home (literally) from dealing with a gc1725m where when the 2k mid pto was yanked rearwards to engage it was also (due to lube issues) yanking the 540 lever backwards. at that point pto power was split.
mower deck suffered a lot.
few shots of wd40 white lithium and all working well.
just a thought.

 

[WranglerX]

This is interesting thread because I got to playing with my PTO after reading here some (never really have had use for it) .... My situation is that the 2000 RPM PTO seem to NOT fully disengage and when I push the 2000 supposedly Off/Neutral there is clicking noise as I engage PTO clutch, but clicking noise goes away when I push 2000 firmly into gear, its like the 2000 does not fully disengage and the gears are sort of rubbing/clicking as it won't fully go into neutral (with engine at idle speeds sort of like grinding straight cut trans gears) .... Will be exploring what the issue may be as I have to change out DIFF LOCK cable (snapped threaded portion when some brush wedged up under tractor) and will have wheel off and access to all the linkages, but as said above, there is no adjustment on linkage, but that may change if I find it's just a linkage problem....

Also can somebody explain why the two stops/guides are at center of throw on clutch lever on my GC 1715 (as in image) they seem to serve no useful purpose...

Also some info on MMM/PRO in link below...

GC 1710 PTO Operation

I wasn't referring to the high/low range lever discussuion. I was referring to the part of the discussion about starting the tractor with PTO engaged.

www.tractorbynet.com

 

[irvingj]

I think those "stops" are there only as a safety issue -- an inadvertent bump on the lever will NOT be able to turn the PTO "ON" but will instead be stopped from moving all the way forward, making it necessary that actual engagement of the PTO be a deliberate act.

 

[hube2]

I think those "stops" are there only as a safety issue -- an inadvertent bump on the lever will NOT be able to turn the PTO "ON" but will instead be stopped from moving all the way forward, making it necessary that actual engagement of the PTO be a deliberate act.

Yep, just for safety.

 

[WranglerX]

Safety stop sounds reasonable, but I have hooked the lever trying to get off tractor and actually pulled it into engagement enough to trip safety switch....... So much for that...