Comparison Gear driven or HST

[sixdogs]

tripleR.....Can I briefly ask how well they work with heavier implements such as on the M8540?

 

[texasjohn]

+1 to what TripleR said.
I also LOVE having 3 steering wheel spinners, also cheap and used every time on the tractor. Makes gripping the wheel easy while going over bumps, other hand on a lever or holding on for balance.

 

[Buppies]

After a hard week at work losing half my crew after failing drug testing reading this thread has done my heart good. Reading Roy Jackson's comments especially. Thank you all

 

[Buppies]

In addition I have used both hydro and gear and much prefer hydro for my 21 acres. Maybe I am just lazy.

 

[foggy1111]

After deciding the tractor size, HP, and tranny you want or need....the MOST important additions for a new buyer IMHO is to figure out what hydraulics and rear remotes you might need in the future. It NEVER gets cheaper or easier to add hydraulic remotes and valves than at the time of purchase.

If you even think you might want a grapple or a hydraulic top link, etc etc....NOW is the time to equip your tractor for those eventual additions. Ask any of us how we know that.

 

[TripleR]

tripleR.....Can I briefly ask how well they work with heavier implements such as on the M8540?

The heaviest three point implement we use on the M8540 is our Land Pride HR3584 which is a little over 1100 pounds and it works great. Right now we are using the old hydraulic top link off of the L5030. We use a pull type 10' rotary cutter, so never needed one before. For anything really heavy, we will buy a heavier duty one made for that size tractor.

 

[Fordiesel69]

Good deal, the Kubota should work well for you. Don't think that you will have any problems with a hydrostatic tractor for ground engagement on a small scale either. To clarify, gear drive is more efficient for steady plowing which is important for real farming but for a wide variety of uses on a residential setting the hydrostatic is a good choice. You can do some high draft work with a hydrostatic tractor without any damage to the transmission but it will burn more fuel.

My thoughts are that for most members here using a compact tractor on small acreage the increased efficientcy of a gear tractor isn't enough to make up for the loss of convienience that the hydrostatic offers. I suspect that gear transmission offerings will all but dissapear from compacts and most of the manufacturers have limited offerings in gear tractors for a reason. Easier for most people to operate in close quarters.

With the last part you mention, that gear transmission offerings will all but dissapear.................... in terms of the R&D manufactures do, in your opinion do you think the hydro is where the quality is, and that they are just slapping out the gear trannies for the few that just have to have it......

In the L3800 Kubota for example, I found personally that the HI/LOW and that total thare were only 8 gears, couply that by terrible notchy shifting, overall I found the HST to be far better in only that model. On the NH on the other hand the HST was ok, but the gear felt much higher quality.

So for those who think durability, could there be less in the gear drive for some manufactures?

 

[jenkinsph]

Fordiesel69,
I don't have a crystal ball to see but suspect that all of the manufacturers have planned obselescence in mind for gear tractors in what I consider the hobby/small acreage market. In five years or less I doubt gear tractors will be offered or available in a compact or smaller tractor. I would doubt that manufacturers would put money in R&D for a gear transmission as we are familiar with today. I do suspect that the IVT trannies will see more development for agricultural sized machines but their cost will be prohibitive for the small compacts. While I stick my neck out I might as well predict an over saturated market with too many tractors too, tractors last alot longer than auto's and trucks. Tractors have been selling very well for the last few years but soon the need for them will be satiated and they will be a dime a dozen. Remember when everyone wanted a van? How many do you see on the dealer lots now?


To answer your question more directly Deere is offering the PR tranny in the 2013 E series tractors at 55hp and up as I recall. This R&D has already been done and is now being implemented. I would guess that current R&D would be more directed towards the IVT and beyond. About durability, from what I read on TBN and other forums very few people are having problems with either gear or hydro transmissions that leads me to believe that all of them are durable and reliable. I suspect the problems we will see very soon will be with the EPA and tier 4 changes, default on tractor loans and as mentioned above an over saturated market. I am thinking within the next two years for most of this.

 

[sixdogs]

Jenkinsph--Good post and clear thinking. I too used to think there would be no more gear transmissions at some point but no longer completely think so and believe i was guilty of the "linear" thinking that got me confused in the past. That is, we take was is occurring. and at the rate it is occurring and project that rate forward for a degree of infinity. No cyclical consideration is given and the trend is your friend.

What I beieve I have learned, however is there is an absolute need for the gear transmission in many agricultural and other applications, perhaps moreso than a hydro. For the hobby market, hydro is great because there is little learning curve and the uninitiated are nearly immediately proficient. Also true on the big tractor CVT and farming 5000 acres; it's simpliy easier with less hassle and a gear drive is not really needed--but maintaing RPM is.

In the middle is everyone else and that's a huge segment of the market. Gear drive synchro with reverser is a relatively new innovation and I think is a desirable combination that will be around a long time. It works well for utility ag purposes and that's the largest part of the tractor market. See, I was a 100% hydro convert but recently bought a Kubota MX5100 gear-hydro for utility ag/landscape uses and did so because experience has shown me it was the better option. So it's a big tent and there's room for us all. All tractors are good regardless if gear, hydro, CVT or even stuck in neutral.

Incedentially, I read a magazine at the doctor's offoce recently that mentioned a consumer desire to return to car handles and door lock buttons as opposed to electric options. And I can't recall the degree of demand but there was mention of an upturn in desire for the gear transmission in cars. Go figure.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I've bought 13 non agricultural (One B2320 was tiny agricultural) Kubotas. 12 were HST and one geared to save $1000, the B2320 with no FEL. Biggest mistake I've made in the tractor buying. I recently traded it to a B2620 HST FEL mostly to get rid of my first and last gear drive Kubota. 6 speed in a Dodge Challenger is OK and several other cars I've owned but tractors ain't cars. If a FEL is on the tractor then I'm puzzled that anyone would buy a gear drive. Just my opinion from my experience and I've never farmed to any extent to make any money, I just buy the stuff farmers make come out of the ground......well small home gardening but not selling to others quantity.

 

[jenkinsph]

sixdogs,
I should have been more clear I meant in 5 years or less for a compact or subcompact. The larger tractors will be offered with gears of various flavors including the syncro reversers and power reversers but I do expect to see the start of some larger equipped tractors with hydros too. For the guy looking at buying a 40hp compact tractor in the future though I do expect these to be fitted with a hydro transmission as the only option.

On a different subject I hope I am really wrong and full of crap. I am growing very concerned that the economy as we know it will not improve and subsequently all the talk about tractors is futile. I have been searching for USA made goods to buy and am exasperated by how few items are available in durable goods and consumer goods. Regardless of who gets elected if we continue to import everything then the US workers will not find work here. I do not think anyone of us here will be insulated from this and predict hardship way beyond anything in the Great Depression era. I still prefer the capitalist system but I think it needs some adjustment, not sure how to go about it though. I would hope that the people at the very top will see fit to reinvest in America, that the people who need to go to work will recognize that a lower paying job beats no job at all. More to the point I hope that Americans in general will start paying attention and avoid this train wreck, but I don't think they will before it is too late. All too often they say "it is a global economy now" and I agree with this but we are all on the wrong side of this to survive. I would hope everyone in the US would start looking around to see how few products are made here and think about the impact it will have in the next two to five years.

 

[Fordiesel69]

sixdogs,
I should have been more clear I meant in 5 years or less for a compact or subcompact. The larger tractors will be offered with gears of various flavors including the syncro reversers and power reversers but I do expect to see the start of some larger equipped tractors with hydros too. For the guy looking at buying a 40hp compact tractor in the future though I do expect these to be fitted with a hydro transmission as the only option.

On a different subject I hope I am really wrong and full of crap. I am growing very concerned that the economy as we know it will not improve and subsequently all the talk about tractors is futile. I have been searching for USA made goods to buy and am exasperated by how few items are available in durable goods and consumer goods. Regardless of who gets elected if we continue to import everything then the US workers will not find work here. I do not think anyone of us here will be insulated from this and predict hardship way beyond anything in the Great Depression era. I still prefer the capitalist system but I think it needs some adjustment, not sure how to go about it though. I would hope that the people at the very top will see fit to reinvest in America, that the people who need to go to work will recognize that a lower paying job beats no job at all. More to the point I hope that Americans in general will start paying attention and avoid this train wreck, but I don't think they will before it is too late. All too often they say "it is a global economy now" and I agree with this but we are all on the wrong side of this to survive. I would hope everyone in the US would start looking around to see how few products are made here and think about the impact it will have in the next two to five years.

Although totally off topic I couldn't have said it any better the direction we are going. I search for LIFEFTIME purchases. Such as the boomer 30, I will be OCD to the hill on maint, and therfore hope it will last a lifetime. I opted for gear for that reason and that reason only. HST is way better to operate, I was just scared of it. Every HST lawn tractor I have owned has gotten weak so I figured in 10 yrs it *could* happen the the NH.

 

[jenkinsph]

Fordiesel69,
I hope that in ten years it still makes a difference what we own. I am more concerned about whether we will be living life as we are accustomed to, whether I have a tractor or not seems inconsequential.

 

[TripleR]

Although totally off topic I couldn't have said it any better the direction we are going. I search for LIFEFTIME purchases. Such as the boomer 30, I will be OCD to the hill on maint, and therfore hope it will last a lifetime. I opted for gear for that reason and that reason only. HST is way better to operate, I was just scared of it. Every HST lawn tractor I have owned has gotten weak so I figured in 10 yrs it *could* happen the the NH.

Just an FYI, I drove an old HST Kubota that was used by a construction company a couple of years ago, 20+ years old and it was battered, but mechanically sound.

 

[94BULLITT]

Look at all of the old Cub Cadets with hydro's still going.

 

[sixdogs]

Jenkinsph and Forddiesel...to get off topic, such feelings of impending doom are typical of the contraction part of the economic cycle, where I feel we are at the moment. Birth rates contract, savings increase, separatist movements build and expections of dire consequence (floods, eathquake, pandemic, war) are everywhere. It's a common feeling and most of the fears are just fears.

The problem today is debt plus unfunded liabilities and that has to be dealt with at some point. It won't until it's a crisis and that's when we figure out which way the Republic goes. My advice is to relax, pay down debts so as to not get trapped and pontificate from the sidelines. Human and economic nature has been here before and while history suggests a stuggle to determine our fate, I don't think it will be as bad as some fear or as good as a politician suggests. I'm just going with the flow since this too shall pass and I have seen these feelings before. The good news is one or both political parties will not likely survive. That's the good news. The bad economy and resultant negative vibes breeds a will to fight, and that's the bad news.

So yeah, there will likely be fewer happy CUT participants and the landscape will probably change. But those here who perservere will likley form bonds of a common struggle likely to endure. Nobody knows the future so my borrowed signature ought to be "Often wrong, never in doubt".

As well, I understand the desire to buy USA goods but the real answer is to buy that which represents the best value for each of us and let the marketplace teach the lessons of what constomers want to buy and what price they are willing to pay for it. That's the real way to fix what's broken.

None of this is political so don't even bring it up. I think we have to be in in the Front Porch or whatever and political talk just ruins a thread. Just my two cents here.

 

[jenkinsph]

sixdogs,
I agree it isn't a political issue and stated above "Regardless of who gets elected...". Also said hope I am really wrong and full of crap, we will see.