Generac 15KW generator engine tear down

   / Generac 15KW generator engine tear down #71  
Actually a hard start kit will increase the initial inrush. It allows for a greater starting torque. Without a hard start kit, the compressor will start more slowly, allowing a longer time at high inrush current. The quicker current spike may assist with getting it started faster and possibly help with the genset.
Is that more inrush to the motor or more inrush from the breaker panel?
I was under the impression that the capacitors in a hard start kit were to store energy so you get increased inrush to the motor with the same (or less) inrush from the breaker panel.

Aaron Z
 
   / Generac 15KW generator engine tear down #72  
The hard start capacitor is not used to "store" energy. The capacitor is used to generate a phase shift in current to the start windings. In other words, it generates a starting torque using the start winding. A larger cap, like a hard start cap, will cause higher current in the starting winding, and hence a higher starting torque. In a hard start kit, this extra current and torque, if left on, would cause a high current over heating of the motor, and eventual failure. So the cap in the hard start kit is only applied momentarily during startup.

As I had said earlier, this higher starting current will result in a higher draw from the AC supply. It is possible that the higher current will be offset by the shorter time for startup. Generators have two limitations: copper and iron. Copper is the size (gauge) of wire. Heavier wire can handle more current with less losses. So heavier wire can provide more current with less losses in the windings (due to resistance). You will therefore have lower voltage drop. With smaller wire, during heavy current draws the voltage will sag more below the design voltage.

Iron refers to the amount on iron in the laminated magnetic structure of the generator's stator. As current goes up, so does the magnetic fields in the iron of the stator. At high currents, the iron can reach "saturation" which is the point where the iron can not increase it's magnetic strength any more - it is saturated. This is kind of a hard limit on the output of the generator. So on a big inrush like the AC, you have the inertia of the generator to provide energy (rotational). The copper may cause the voltage to droop at high currents, but if you hit field saturation, you are at a hard limit on current.

The desire to build cheaply, common in many import units, means saving on copper and iron. This is why many low cost gen sets have such a low ratio between the full load and surge ratings. A heavier, more conservative build will have more margins and therefore a higher surge rating.

paul
 
   / Generac 15KW generator engine tear down
  • Thread Starter
#73  
Appreciate the feedback guys. My unit is actually a 4-ton unit. Trane XE1000 from 1997. Here's it's "plate":

tranexe1000.jpg


Putting a current clamp on gives me a 18A reading per leg, so that's 36A @ 240V I believe, or 8640W. This would be with the unit already running. Not sure how I would capture start up current. Perhaps the label above would offer a clue?

I used to have a 25kw Generac PTO generator that had a 50kw surge capacity. I guess they didn't skimp on the copper and iron in that guy! I don't seem to be able to locate a surge spec for my 15kw Generac 4390.
 
   / Generac 15KW generator engine tear down #74  
The only real way to see is to try it. Shed all other loads and flick it on. One bad problem with gen sets is if the start in-rush lugs the generator and pulls down the voltage, the motor will never come up to speed, and stay in the start winding and draw high current. You sit there with the gen pulled down and the motor never starting and hopefully the breaker blows to break the cycle. Leave a small light on and judge the overall situation with how long the bulb stays dim.

Once you are running, you should be fine. Full load amps is only about 25, and that would be with a high load on the AC (hot house, blazing outside temp)

paul
 
   / Generac 15KW generator engine tear down #75  
Do you know why portable gens list surge capacity and the stationary whole house gens do not?
 
   / Generac 15KW generator engine tear down #76  
tranexe1000.jpg


Putting a current clamp on gives me a 18A reading per leg, so that's 36A @ 240V I believe, or 8640W. This would be with the unit already running. Not sure how I would capture start up current. Perhaps the label above would offer a clue?


The old electrician who taught me how to use a volt/amp meter advised to use the reading obtained from one leg of the electrical supply line to determine running amps. If he was right, your running amps is 18 not 36. A 36 amp running device would really make a power bill jump each month.
 
   / Generac 15KW generator engine tear down
  • Thread Starter
#77  
Do you know why portable gens list surge capacity and the stationary whole house gens do not?
I noticed that as well when trying to find that spec. Their 15kw portable is advertised as having 22.5kw surge, so I would imagine a whole house of same continuous rating by the same manufacturer would be similar.
 
   / Generac 15KW generator engine tear down
  • Thread Starter
#78  
The old electrician who taught me how to use a volt/amp meter advised to use the reading obtained from one leg of the electrical supply line to determine running amps. If he was right, your running amps is 18 not 36. A 36 amp running device would really make a power bill jump each month.
Come to think about, that makes sense since one leg is the supply and the other return on a 240V circuit. Much like I would get the same reading on both the hot and neutral on a 120V circuit.
 
   / Generac 15KW generator engine tear down #79  
Come to think about, that makes sense since one leg is the supply and the other return on a 240V circuit. Much like I would get the same reading on both the hot and neutral on a 120V circuit.

Any update for the forum on the generator? Did the Fat Bastard and Frank stop by for the engine swap? How close are you to actually powering that bad boy up?
 
   / Generac 15KW generator engine tear down
  • Thread Starter
#80  
Yep, they sure did. Here's my old engine. We stole the flywheel, shields, governor, oil pump, pickup and misc other parts from it.

15kw-71.jpg


Once it was mounted back on the frame we put oil in, spun it with the starter to make sure made spark, oil pressure and compression. It did. Next up was to install all these pieces:

15kw-70.jpg


And a shot of the engine and generator sections fully re-assembled:

15kw-73.jpg


Only thing left is to install the battery and control board, but I might pull the firewall back off to drill out one of the intake manifold bolt holes and re-tap one size up, as it was somewhat stripped. Seems to be holding but it spun when I tried to toque it down to the proper value. After all the effort in getting this generator in prime condition again, I'd hate for it to develop a leak on the intake side over time...
 

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