Generator hookups in ONTARIO

[Industrial Toys]

When they realize the fuel truck (a thousand times worse if it's propane) isn't coming on account of overwhelming demand, they will have wished they had conserved their fuel supply.

I have said it before. The problem isn't so much that you don't have power. The BIGGER problem is that you usually don't know how long it will be out. And that, actually was the biggest PITA with a PTO set. I rarely see anyone mention that drawback. First you don't know whether to bother going through the motions. Then, sometimes you do, and the power comes back just as you get running. Not complaining the power is back, mind you. Life is always easier with utility power.

 

[check]

When they realize the fuel truck (a thousand times worse if it's propane) isn't coming on account of overwhelming demand, they will have wished they had conserved their fuel supply. I have said it before. The problem isn't so much that you don't have power. The BIGGER problem is that you usually don't know how long it will be out. And that, actually was the biggest PITA with a PTO set. I rarely see anyone mention that drawback. First you don't know whether to bother going through the motions. Then, sometimes you do, and the power comes back just as you get running. Not complaining the power is back, mind you. Life is always easier with utility power.

Actually, Tom, this latest power outage after the storm two days ago was fairly short, and our power utility, Hydro One, has an excellent map on their website which gives you a good idea of how long the power is likely to be out for any given area. Also, we have decided to upgrade our tank to the thousand gallon tank, so that we will be extremely unlikely to run out of propane during a power outage.

Another big problem with something like a cottage is that you are not there to turn the generator off for periods of time, and so of course with an automatic standby generator it runs 24-7, costing A LOT of money if it runs for any length of time.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I once snagged the guy wire on our transformer pole. The wires going out to the road whipped around touching each other, blowing the protector out at the road. Calling Hydro One, I got a message indicating that they were aware of an outage in our area. My god, I thought! I've taken out the entire area!

I didn't believe it, and got blood on the line. Some nice chaps came out on a Sunday Evening and fixed me up. Had I waited, going by the automated system, I STILL wouldn't have power!

I have no faith in automated systems, and the worse a situation gets, the less faith I would have in it.

I have an ASCO 200 amp Auto switch, but don't have it auto start the genset. I don't want it running when I am away. Besides, someone has to go take the blanket off of the genset!

 

[TerryR]

Turn on the electric motor and drive the engine to it's rated output RPM (2800, 3000, 3600, etc). Measure the power consumed by the electric motor -- this will give you a good idea of the mechanical and frictional losses ("overhead") associated with running the engine.

But as you point out below, those losses are not constant for a given generator, but to considerable extent depend on the amount of power being delivered.

Just actuating the valve springs on an internal combustion engine many times per second saps a lot of power.

Really? They give back much of that power when the springs are released. Granted not all of it, but do you really believe this is significant?

Spinning the water pump in order to exchange engine heat with the radiator takes power.

I'll grant you that one.

Large alternators (2-20KW) are typically equipped with a coaxial cooling fan -- and it takes power for a fan to move air.

And that one.

Finally, the mechanical to electrical conversion process of the alternator itself is not "free" -- it is only 80-85% efficient. The remaining 15-20% is lost as heat, hence the need for a coaxial cooling fan to keep the stator and rotor from exceeding the winding insulation rating.

10 to 20% of nothing is nothing. Where is the conversion loss on the energy that's not being generated when you operate at less than full power?

An up-conversion is needed at the attached PTO generator to spin the alternator head at either 1800 or 3600RPM. This up-conversion comes at a cost -- even helical-cut gears bathed in oil cost you 2-3% power transmission loss.

Again, 2-3% of nothing is nothing - there's no loss on the power that's not being transmitted.

I have not left out the tractor HST "loss" here; converting stored chemical energy in fuel into heat energy resulting in mechanical power onward to hydraulic power and then to mechanical power and finally to electrical power is not a free process...

Your PTO uses hydraulic drive? I thought even on HST tractors the PTO was gear driven. No?

Yes, there is some loss from using a larger unit than necessary, but "keeping that large mass spinning" isn't the cause of it.

 

[buickanddeere]

Nobody said anything about operating a 50KW genset 24/7 for a month. We run the little gasser 5.5KW when ever there isn't much going on and over night for lights , water pump, fridge , freezer and furnace fan.

 

[Fallon]

But as you point out below, those losses are not constant for a given generator, but to considerable extent depend on the amount of power being delivered.


Really? They give back much of that power when the springs are released. Granted not all of it, but do you really believe this is significant?


I'll grant you that one.


And that one.


10 to 20% of nothing is nothing. Where is the conversion loss on the energy that's not being generated when you operate at less than full power?


Again, 2-3% of nothing is nothing - there's no loss on the power that's not being transmitted.



Your PTO uses hydraulic drive? I thought even on HST tractors the PTO was gear driven. No?

Yes, there is some loss from using a larger unit than necessary, but "keeping that large mass spinning" isn't the cause of it.

The charging pump on a HST eats up a bit of HP, even when the machine isn't moving. Not much, but it does decrease the publishrd PTO HP ratings between gear & HST machines by most manufacturers.

 

[buickanddeere]

Can anybody find into on the Generlink NA24 50amp transfer switch ?

 

[gogojuice]

So.. to bring it back on topic.

I called the electrician in my area. He related that the 200 amp interlock is approved.. but it appears the 100 amp is not.
Lucky for me i have 200 amp service.

He is coming to take a look next week.