Generator Location Question....

[Richard]

I live in the boonies. Power goes out nearly once a week however, maybe for a blink of time or sometimes, for 2-3 hours. During a storm, the worst as I recall might have approached nearly a week. Brother in law (electrician) brought one over and hooked it up to help us get through that (winter AND we had his wheelchair bound niece here visiting, was a huge help!)

anyway...
I've always liked idea of putting a generator in but fight with where to put it. To try to describe situation in simple terms:

Square lot. House on back edge. Septic field is entire front/side yard. My presumption is the power line can't cross over the drain field. Other side of house is driveway. My power comes in on the OPPOSITE side of house, where the drain field is.

Was cutting yard other day and had a light bulb go off in my head.

In the very front of the house, is the on/ground transformer.

Could a generator be installed next to /near by the transformer. I am presuming the transfer box (whatever it's called to make sure a line man doesn't get fried) would be near the generator. So, could this be outside, near the power company's transformer. If their power is on, then power goes through transformer, through underground wire, into the house and life is good.

Power goes out and generator fires up, then the transfer switch blocks the transformer, generator is producing but is using the SAME UNDERGROUND wires that is already wired into the house?

It dawned on me that if this could be how it works, that could make this far more doable than I currently believe it to be.

I look around (and have a VERY visually minded wife) and conclude:

1. She's not going to want a generator on the side of house where the power actually enters. Truth be told, she wouldn't want a generator at all as it would be an eye-sore)
2. Difficult to put it on the non-power entry side of house as it complicates getting the power over to the input side of house.
3. Behind house, too close to property line, doubt I have space
4. Other than actual (gravel) driveway, all sides of house have flagstone sidewalk or patio making ripping it up, laying line, fixing flagstone a much larger project

(eyeballs current transformer)....but if I could have them splice things into the line already coming to house...... that could work.

But, COULD that work?

 

[RjCorazza]

Not an electrician, but I've never heard of a home generator transfer switch on the power company side of the meter. No doubt it's possible, but I suspect the power company won't like it.
I would figure out how to install your generator near the panel and do a standard transfer switch or interlock.
I run my pto generator at the back of the house, with a 30' cord connected to the panel via an interlock.

 

[Topzide]

You wouldn't want the generator to be powering your meter! Separate power feed into the transfer box that connects the house.you can put the generator anywhere you would like. There is a cost to choosing a location, as the size conductors need for length of run and size of generator.

 

[ponytug]

I live in the boonies. Power goes out nearly once a week however, maybe for a blink of time or sometimes, for 2-3 hours. During a storm, the worst as I recall might have approached nearly a week. Brother in law (electrician) brought one over and hooked it up to help us get through that (winter AND we had his wheelchair bound niece here visiting, was a huge help!)

anyway...
I've always liked idea of putting a generator in but fight with where to put it. To try to describe situation in simple terms:

Square lot. House on back edge. Septic field is entire front/side yard. My presumption is the power line can't cross over the drain field. Other side of house is driveway. My power comes in on the OPPOSITE side of house, where the drain field is.

Was cutting yard other day and had a light bulb go off in my head.

In the very front of the house, is the on/ground transformer.

Could a generator be installed next to /near by the transformer. I am presuming the transfer box (whatever it's called to make sure a line man doesn't get fried) would be near the generator. So, could this be outside, near the power company's transformer. If their power is on, then power goes through transformer, through underground wire, into the house and life is good.

Power goes out and generator fires up, then the transfer switch blocks the transformer, generator is producing but is using the SAME UNDERGROUND wires that is already wired into the house?

It dawned on me that if this could be how it works, that could make this far more doable than I currently believe it to be.

I look around (and have a VERY visually minded wife) and conclude:

1. She's not going to want a generator on the side of house where the power actually enters. Truth be told, she wouldn't want a generator at all as it would be an eye-sore)
2. Difficult to put it on the non-power entry side of house as it complicates getting the power over to the input side of house.
3. Behind house, too close to property line, doubt I have space
4. Other than actual (gravel) driveway, all sides of house have flagstone sidewalk or patio making ripping it up, laying line, fixing flagstone a much larger project

(eyeballs current transformer)....but if I could have them splice things into the line already coming to house...... that could work.

But, COULD that work?

You won't be allowed to splice into the transformer feed. You could move your meter out there, and put the transfer switch out there, but the power company will want working space around the transformer, so probably not very close, and your wife and AHJ may have something to say about a meter enclosure and a transfer switch sticking up out of the lawn.

Here's a link to minimum cover requirements for underground wiring;

https://adamselectric.coop/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Minimum-Cover-Requirements.pdf

I'm not an electrician and I have no idea if one is allowed to cross a drain field, but one could certainly go around it. All it costs is more wire and conduit.

We have solar with batteries to handle the seconds to minutes power loss, and for 99% of the year, we can throttle back our energy use to get by on the solar. When we can't (winter storms plus long outages in particular), we have a transfer switch at the house, and a generator outlet 70' away, and can hook up the generator to that outlet. Again, it is just wiring. In our case, it gets the generator a ways away from the house, even though the transfer switch is on the opposite side of the house. (I didn't really have a way to get a big portable generator there.)

All the best,

Peter

 

[EddieWalker]

How will you fuel the generator? If you are pouring gas into it, will the location affect how you can get to it if there is a storm happening? If it's off of propane or natural gas, how far will it be from the tank or supply line at the house?

How far do you have to run the power line from the generator to the panel? The farther you go, the more you have to think of the size of the wires. Will you bury them?

How will you protect the generator? Does it come with a case or will you have to build something to put it in?

Next to the house makes it easy to build a cover over it.
Next to the house makes it easy to run power and gas lines to it.
Next to the house makes it easy to screen with landscaping.
Next to the house might make it easy to look at if something is wrong during a storm.

 

[oldnslo]

I would talk to an electrician or possibly power company to find out what the rules are for installing a generator with automatic transfer switch. Not sure if there are regulations on line of sight requirements for disconnects or limit on distance between generator and your main breaker panel.

 

[Richard]

Thanks for the insightful thoughts/comments!

I had not thought about it but yeah..... there's no way I think the power company would allow me to splice into their system.

I was thinking of diesel. Location would make it easy/peasy to access/maintain/fuel.

This could be reason 383 to get a backhoe! (I digress)

As it happens, transformer is (let's call it) middle of front yard. Their power goes to the left, wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy around the drain field (as my understanding is the two can't cross) Then goes 3/4 distance back to house....essentially taking it as long of a path as they could have.

Generator powering the meter! BAH! I hadn't even thought of that!!

Ok, so this idea is dead.

I'm always a bit of a scheming type.... I might be back to just getting a PTO driven so it can be gone when not in use (which admittedly is NOT very often) Maybe configure things to see how to get it to (legally of course) work. I don't want to be in the business of frying electrical workers.

Hmmmm....that makes me also wonder..... tractor has 540 AND a 1,000 pto. Because I use a hydraulically driven flexwing, I ALSO have a 4x "speed increaser" that takes the 540 up to around 2,160 at PTO speed.

Not really a worry for today, but I wonder if I could use that to interface with PTO generator so tractor speeds could be dialed back even further. (IH-1066 but I'm not recalling the PTO hp.... I think it's over 100)

Just rambling now. I appreciate the fantastic comments. You can ALL, feel free to take tomorrow off to enjoy with your favorite people in life!

 

[ponytug]

Thanks for the insightful thoughts/comments!

I had not thought about it but yeah..... there's no way I think the power company would allow me to splice into their system.

I was thinking of diesel. Location would make it easy/peasy to access/maintain/fuel.

This could be reason 383 to get a backhoe! (I digress)

As it happens, transformer is (let's call it) middle of front yard. Their power goes to the left, wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy around the drain field (as my understanding is the two can't cross) Then goes 3/4 distance back to house....essentially taking it as long of a path as they could have.

Generator powering the meter! BAH! I hadn't even thought of that!!

Ok, so this idea is dead.

I'm always a bit of a scheming type.... I might be back to just getting a PTO driven so it can be gone when not in use (which admittedly is NOT very often) Maybe configure things to see how to get it to (legally of course) work. I don't want to be in the business of frying electrical workers.

Hmmmm....that makes me also wonder..... tractor has 540 AND a 1,000 pto. Because I use a hydraulically driven flexwing, I ALSO have a 4x "speed increaser" that takes the 540 up to around 2,160 at PTO speed.

Not really a worry for today, but I wonder if I could use that to interface with PTO generator so tractor speeds could be dialed back even further. (IH-1066 but I'm not recalling the PTO hp.... I think it's over 100)

Just rambling now. I appreciate the fantastic comments. You can ALL, feel free to take tomorrow off to enjoy with your favorite people in life!

A PTO powered generator that can go away probably sounds like a great solution. Just put in a manual transfer switch to connect it up.

All the usual caveats about sizing it large enough to handle the starting loads from things like pumps and AC/heatpumps. that can be 3-5 times their running load if they aren't inverter models.

Yes, you can certainly turn down the engine speed by setting the PTO to 1,000rpm, and then turning down the throttle to get to 540rpm at the PTO output. We had a ten day outage after a derecho across the whole state, and it took me a day or three to remember the 1,000rpm PTO, and turn the tractor down. Made a heck of lot less noise!

I suspect that you don't want to turn the tractor too far down. Diesels do not thrive at low rpm, low output uses. If it were me, I'd settle for the 1,000rpm turned down to 540.

All the best, Peter

 

[JPRambo]

Install a new meter box on a pedestal near the transformer with auto xfer switch.

 

[LouNY]

One thing I haven't heard of is the location of your main panel, main disconnect.
Also if you are going to be using a PTO generator a manual transfer switch is all that is needed.
If you have a 200 Amp main disconnected I would go with a matching service rated transfer switch.
Your 1066 will have no trouble running a PTO generator at half throttle on the 1000 rpm shaft.
Depending on how tight the governor on the tractor is will influence how stable your power outputs frequency mostly, with an AVR the voltage will not change much. If it's needed in cold weather you may want to block off most or all of the radiator to keep her up to temperature.
Light load, half throttle she won't need much cooling.