Generator

[buffalohunter]

I would like you folks opinion of a PTO driven generator, I have a 1989 4955 and a 2004 9620T. I figured a PTO generator would come in handy instead of buying gas driven separate generator. Thanks for any info or opinions.

 

[RalphVa]

There have been lots of threads on this. Try a search of the forums to find them.

Main drawback to using a PTO generator vs. a dedicated, fixed-in-place one with its fuel supply tank/vessel is providing fuel to it. Your tractor will use anywhere from 0.5 gallons/hr (for an 18-20 hp machine) to 2.0 gallons/hr (for an 80-100 hp machine): for diesels, up to 50% more for gas carbureted engines. My little 4000 watt gasoline generator with about a 10 hp engine uses about 0.5 gallons/hr, same as my 18.5 hp diesel tractor. It's a pain keeping gasoline supplied to it if power is out for an extended period.

The other aspect is your tractor is out of commission while sitting on a generator. Also, in my situation, I can't get my tractor out of its garage if power if off. I didn't provide a "people" door to that garage. Gotta crawl into a window to get to it if the little gas generator doesn't work. Poor planning on my part.

Ralph

 

[nosliw]

my opinion is to buy a dedicated gas generator.

i really have a problem racking up hours on the tractor unless it's doing a job. i don't need 40hp to power a couple pellet stoves and some lights

besides, who's to say you don't want to play on your tractor when the power is out?

 

[jdbower]

What I'm leaning towards is a PTO generator for on-the-spot applications (a field arc welder comes to mind) since I'd rarely use it and maintenance should be lower than a portable gas generator. I'm hoping to eventually get a whole house generator that runs off propane and/or natural gas, that way I've got the fuel supply covered for my cooking and heating anyway. Whether I need the latter will depend on how many outages I get, last year I had one minor outage but the year before power was out frequently for hours at a time.

 

[buffalohunter]

Thanks gentlemen.

 

[Soundguy]

I would like you folks opinion of a PTO driven generator, I have a 1989 4955 and a 2004 9620T. I figured a PTO generator would come in handy instead of buying gas driven separate generator. Thanks for any info or opinions.

I like mine.

I have a 12.5kw northern tools pto genny. When i need it I know it will start .( I know my multi-thousand dollar hi-quality tractor engine will start.. I'm not so sure about a disposable aluminum hunk of junk throw away engine with a gummy carb).

I didn't worry about the fuel issue, as I'm not one of those people that can't live without AC power being continously on. thus wouldn't run my genny 100% 24/7 during a utility outtage... besides.. who wants to live next to the guy that has his genny run 24hrs a day.. vs just a few hours a day for tools or to power up a pump/heater/fridge for a while.

I also don't worry about the 'tie up my tractor' issue for 2 reasons.. 1, as I said.. 24/7 ac power isn't needed.. it's a 'backup' genny.. in an emergency i will be conserving my fuel and only make ac power when needed.. and 2, I got more than 1 tractor.. and my primary generator powering tractor is only usefull for mowing anyway... my 'more versatile' tractor with a loader on it would be my 'storm cleanup' tractor.. etc..

given that the gen head electronics will probably be about the same.. that means the price difference you pay on a pto gen vs a self powered one is in that little 1800 or 3600 rpm chunk of aluminum with a pull start on it, and a carb made in china out of 2$ of materials.. vs your 5000+ dollar tractor engine... which one you gonna trust when the lights go out? the aluminum throwaway whizzbang? or your tractor? Sure.. when new.. the whizzbangs are pretty good. throw 1000 hrs of runtime on it and re-evaluate. your diesel tractor is just getting broke in... make it a 'mid life' test and throw 3000 hrs of runtime on it. If you change your oil and filters every year on your tractor.. it should be good and used but running fine at 3k.. even for a compact... I'm not so sure about todays whizzbangs.... I don't plan on buying another generator for aloooooong time.. By having it as a pto gen.. the electronics can be moved from tractor to tractor.. thus the 'engine' life issue is not tied to the genny life issue... the rest of it is the head... mostly a loop of wire... if a little use/ care and storage considerations are taken.. the head for either type should last fine..

soundguy

 

[JB4310]

I to have debated this question for a long time and have decided on the pto for many of the same reasons as Soundguy, just like to add that regarding the small 4 stroke gas engines, none of them will ever see 1000 hours, that's not the point since they are for back up use, the problem is they are a stored engine, every time I take a stored engine out lately I've got to service them, take carbs apart etc. Everything from job site generators, pumps, snow blowers, log splitter, welder etc. etc. etc. Always fuel related and I do use fuel stabilizer faithfully.
Yes we always get them going, but sometimes it takes an hour or more and I have an employee who is a very good mechanic and has become quit the expert in cleaning low idle metering valves as he's the one who's been doing the maintenance. I don't have the patience I once had for that tedious work. I wouldn't want to be doing that in the dark, by myself, and in need of some tiny o-ring or other part.
like was said, my tractor is always in top shape, if something goes wrong it gets fixed right away when the stores are open, having 2 tractors makes the likelihood of mechanical failure at the time of need very small.
I have three small generators, only up to 4kw, Home depot had an incredible promotion last week, they had a 5.5 KW with a Yamaha engine for only $399. they had a stack of them brand new in boxes with the full power cords, cover and other acs. I almost bought one just because it was such a great deal. The only thing I could think of was that they don't meet new emissions standards and they had to sell them before the new year, they were reg around a grand.

 

[Doc_Bob]

My wife would never be able to handle a PTO genny.
So standalone is my choice.

 

[Soundguy]

Ironically, my wife couldn't even handle a portable genset.. or an inverter.. so making it 'wife friendly' wasn't one of my concerns.(hmm.. maybe she does that on purpose.. ;-) )

soundguy

 

[buffalohunter]

I appreciate all you folks input on this subject, I believe I am goin to start lookin around for a PTO generator. They have several companies that manufacture these machines in a local farm paper I get. Again appreciate the info.

 

[Phineas7]

I've looked into this also. I currently have a 4KW stand alone that uses an 8HP gas engine. I've had it for 12 years, just got the Tractor a couple of months ago. So far it has always started, but it sucks fuel, is loud, and it can't run much.

I could probably run an 11 - 15 KW on my 24hp PTO, but I have one concern; that is the stand alone generators have a crude RPM based cruise control. As the fridge or the well kicks on it opens the throttle to handle the extra load. Maybe your tractor can do this, mine can't. My wild guess would be that you could load the PTO with about half the rated hp and have reasonably consistent rpm, but I'm not too sure. If that were right I'd be back down to 5 or 6kw, which is not enough of an improvement to warrant the cost (for me).

 

[RonMar]

I've looked into this also. I currently have a 4KW stand alone that uses an 8HP gas engine. I've had it for 12 years, just got the Tractor a couple of months ago. So far it has always started, but it sucks fuel, is loud, and it can't run much.

I could probably run an 11 - 15 KW on my 24hp PTO, but I have one concern; that is the stand alone generators have a crude RPM based cruise control. As the fridge or the well kicks on it opens the throttle to handle the extra load. Maybe your tractor can do this, mine can't. My wild guess would be that you could load the PTO with about half the rated hp and have reasonably consistent rpm, but I'm not too sure. If that were right I'd be back down to 5 or 6kw, which is not enough of an improvement to warrant the cost (for me).

Is this a diesel tractor or gas? If diesel, it should have a governor integral to the injector pump. The throttle is not really a throttle but a speed selector. If you lock it at a particular place, it should maintain a relatively stable RPM with load changes.

The PTO generator has some merrit and I have loked at them also as it is one less engine to maintain and a way for me to get a larger backup capability if I should need it, as well as get a welder out around my property. One thng I am not to excited about would be running the engine at full rated PTO RPM for a few extra KW of power. Having a two speed PTO is a plus here as you can run the engine at a lower RPM and still get a 540 PTO, at a lesser available horsepower.

As for gas engine reliability after storage, this is a problem. I either run all my engines every 30-60 days, or I remove all the gas from them that I can and run them till they quit. All of my motorcycles always had bowl drain screws. I wish more small engines had them for this reason. An engine that is not run will lose lube on it's internal parts and with temp changes breathe in moisture in the air thru the crankcase vents/carb. This will lead to internal corrosion, so I have found it better to run them regularly to keep the innards oil coated and drive out any moisture.

 

[zzvyb6]

Everybody has an opinion, but, my pto alternator has traveled to other homes and businesses to help them out. Last Party Store took me on to save $5,000 in ice cream, steaks and milk last summer. Insurance aid for the entire unit + fuel plus ice cream in one check. Ran fuel right out of his pumps.

I have a 90' 240v extension cord and a shorter line with separate outlets for 3 phase outputs for the businesses from a WinCo 50kW.

Neighbors got water, heat, tv, battery charging and news from intermittent round robin service (about 2 hrs apiece). Winter and summer.

Sure a home unit makes you feel self sufficient, but helping the neighbors gets you some friendships that can't be acquired any other way. Make sure they have a 50 amp dryer plug handy. Pull the meter and fire up the furnace, well, oven and microwave some soup.

 

[bobmisi]

I also have a Northern 12,500 watt pto generator, which I mounted to a platform with big air filled casters and goes on my 3 point hitch. I will try to get some pictures, but this setup can go anywhere I need power and will put out 100 amps to power my whole house. I didn't want to fool with another engine, they never start when you need them, most are made overseas, etc, etc,etc. Once I got my new diesel tractor I knew it was the way to go. It will always start and it is kept full of fuel, and it is quieter than a small engine running wide open. If I'm only running a couple of items I can shift the pto to 1000 rpm and just idle it down, for more power usage I shift to 540 rpm and power it up. Plus the cost is less for the pto unit even after I built my mount. To me if you have a tractor it really makes sense to go pto. One last thought, my previous tractor was a Allis D12 and the pto did not run at a constant pto speed. It would not run my pto generator at a smooth speed, the output needle was all over the place, which would burn out computers and tvs and the like. Make sure your pto speed on older tractors is a nice consistant speed or it won't run right.

 

[JB4310]

I also have a Northern 12,500 watt pto generator, which I mounted to a platform with big air filled casters and goes on my 3 point hitch. I will try to get some pictures, but this setup can go anywhere I need power and will put out 100 amps to power my whole house. I didn't want to fool with another engine, they never start when you need them, most are made overseas, etc, etc,etc. Once I got my new diesel tractor I knew it was the way to go. It will always start and it is kept full of fuel, and it is quieter than a small engine running wide open. If I'm only running a couple of items I can shift the pto to 1000 rpm and just idle it down, for more power usage I shift to 540 rpm and power it up. .

I just got my new 10 KW pto generator last week and have not tried it out yet, I'm a little confused on the output, mine has a 40 amp double pole breaker for 220 volt, so when feeding the house does that mean each of the 2 phases of 120 volts will get 40 amps?, I'm assuming that your 12.5 KW has a 50 amp breaker on the 240 outlet and that's how you are getting the 100 amps?
I do somewhat understand ohms law but not as well as I should, sure wish I had that 1000 rpm pto option, I've been following some other threads on pto multipliers, does anyone know if there is a simple in line gear box for pto speed increase?
As far as pulling the meter out that zzvyb6 referred to, is that a safer way to do the dreaded back feed through dryer or stove circuit?, isn't switching off the main the same thing, or does it make it safer by eliminating the chance that someone else throws the main switch unknowingly?
I also have a 50 amp extension cord for my welder that will be used to power the house and shop with the generator and I also want to be able to power neighbors, not because I'm so gracious, but to keep them in there own homes so they don't have to come to my house to shower or sleep, I've got the 3 pt pto carrier and have a few different 220 volt plug ends for the different outlets I might encounter, so I should be a traveling little power plant.
In my case, we rarely loose power since we are within 20 miles of the power plant, but I still want to be prepared for the worst.

 

[tommu56]

JB4310

Here is a good link on 110/220 single phase description


Single-phase power systems : POLYPHASE AC CIRCUITS
tom

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I would like you folks opinion of a PTO driven generator, I have a 1989 4955 and a 2004 9620T. I figured a PTO generator would come in handy instead of buying gas driven separate generator. Thanks for any info or opinions.

buffalohunter, you have enough HP to power a small town. How much electricity do you need? Do a search and you can find some good info here on small and larger units.

 

[RonMar]

I just got my new 10 KW pto generator last week and have not tried it out yet, I'm a little confused on the output, mine has a 40 amp double pole breaker for 220 volt, so when feeding the house does that mean each of the 2 phases of 120 volts will get 40 amps?, I'm assuming that your 12.5 KW has a 50 amp breaker on the 240 outlet and that's how you are getting the 100 amps?

Power in Watts is = current times voltage(P = I x E) conversely power divided by either current or voltage will = the other remaining value. Your 10KW generator is capable of providing 1/2,the rated output, or 5KW, on each 120V leg. So 120V X 40A breaker value = 4800W. 240V x 40A breaker = 9600W. So 40A per 120V leg is appropriate for a 10KW generator.

 

[Soundguy]

I think you are gravely misunderstanding how a pto genset works, and how tractor rpm / throttle work.

if your tractors runs at half throttle / rpm.. that does not mean have wattage.. it means NO wattage. RPM must remain very near constant for the pto gento work. fuel usage will be based on electrical load. max electrical load will be based on gen head and engine hp. do the math.

soundguy

I've looked into this also. I currently have a 4KW stand alone that uses an 8HP gas engine. I've had it for 12 years, just got the Tractor a couple of months ago. So far it has always started, but it sucks fuel, is loud, and it can't run much.

I could probably run an 11 - 15 KW on my 24hp PTO, but I have one concern; that is the stand alone generators have a crude RPM based cruise control. As the fridge or the well kicks on it opens the throttle to handle the extra load. Maybe your tractor can do this, mine can't. My wild guess would be that you could load the PTO with about half the rated hp and have reasonably consistent rpm, but I'm not too sure. If that were right I'd be back down to 5 or 6kw, which is not enough of an improvement to warrant the cost (for me).

 

[jdbower]

it means NO wattage

Is that only if you're lucky? Unless the generator protects against this I would think you'd still get power out of it, but not necessarily at 120/240V or (more importantly) 60Hz - leading to a big savings in your monthy energy bill until you replace your appliances