Generator

[Soundguy]

PTO-driven generators seem to sell for much more than their consumer-grade gas-engine-driven counterparts of a similar size.

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Not sure what planet you live on.. but doller per KW.. I've never seen a pto genset cost more than a unit with it's own engine.. chinese units included.

My 12.5kw pto get cost me 1000$.. where can you buy a gas powerd 12.5kw genny for that $$ ?? I'd like to know..

soundguy

 

[KeithInSpace]

My 12.5kw pto get cost me 1000$

No disrespect at all, but a quick check does not yield those types of prices. I saw a 7kW unit for $1k, but it goes up from there. Not that it is unreasonably expensive, but it looks like you got a pretty good deal.

For the sake of discussion, I'd say that you could get less expensive gas-powered GenSets that are priced better than PTO units, and "premium" GenSets that are more expensive. Depends on what you want to buy.

In my particular situation, I have well and septic, gas heat, and gas water heater. I have a 400A (two panel) service.

I installed "generator" breakers that go to two 30A RV-style twist-lock receptacles that, in turn, connect to my custom two-into-one 15 foot long 30A cable that connects to my 5.5kW Briggs and Stratton GenSet I got at Homey Depot for $600.

To fire it up, I just wheel the generator to the yard, connect all the ends, start the generator, cut myself free from the power company using the main breakers, and turn each panel to generator power using the two 30A "generator" breakers. I also have several breakers marked to be turned off, such as the electric oven, washer, dryer, and the A/C compressors.

Sometimes I have a small problem keeping the generator lit if everything hits at once when I FIRST start it up (well pump, sump pump, and a bunch of lights my wife left on). But after that first few minutes of surge, I have left it running for nearly 24 hours with no trouble at all. Amazingly, I've run it for that period of time and burning only 8 gallons or so of fuel.

That's how I do it...and THATS the problem I have with PTO generators. I have probably 60 hours of actual blackout time on my generator over the last 3 years. I'd much rather have that time on my POS Generator that I can throw away and replace anytime I want than on my VERY expensive tractor. The generator time alone would increase the hours on my machine by 33% (260 hours vs. my current 200 hours). Not to mention I'm leaving my machine OUTSIDE in the 2 foot snowstorm or the tropical storm that knocked out power in the first place.

I pay ~$500 for a very complete dealer service every 100 hours on my machine (don't yell at me...one of the few items I take VERY good care of), so if I'm forced to another service just to support my generator duties, I've almost PAID for a new generator in service costs alone.

I'm all about engine-count reduction, but these are simply my thoughts on the subject. They're worth every penny paid for them. Personally, I'll soldier on with my portable generators. When mine poops out, I'll either get TWO 7kW units or a single 10kW or 12kW unit. Maybe a perm installation. We'll see.

 

[jas67]

Northern Tool has a 7KW PTO generator for $899 -- it was on sale for $749 yesterday, but that sale appears to be over

NorthStar PTO Generator — 7200 Watt, 14 HP Required | PTO Generators | Northern Tool + Equipment

Here is a 7500 W gas-powered portable for $699:
All Power America Portable Generator — 7500 Watt, Model# APG3075 | 7,000 - 9,999 Watts | Northern Tool + Equipment

KeithInSpace has a point about the maintenance issues of using your tractor for emergency power, esp. when for short-term use a portable is a cheaper way to go.

 

[KeithInSpace]

Another minor point:

I have gasoline cars and other gasoline needs in my mower, weed-whacker, and chainsaw. Including the 5 gallons in my generator, I keep another 15 gallons on-hand.

The nice thing is that if I'm forced to, I can tap the 40+ gallons of fuel in both my vehicles and be self-sufficient power-wise for well over a week...probably over two if I went to running the Genny periodically in an extended outage.

I pour all my "stored" gasoline into my truck every 9 months or so and re-fill the cans to make 100% sure I have good gas when I need it (I stabilize, of course, but you can't be too careful).

If I had a diesel truck, another strategy may be called for, but this seems like a pretty good backup system to me.

Until my $600 POS generator has a carb diaphragm or pull-cord fail in the middle of a snowstorm. That'd be just my luck.

 

[jas67]

I have 550 Gallons of #2 fuel oil storage (same as diesel) in my basement for heating. I never let that get below 100 gallons. I always have plenty of fuel to run my Onan diesel generator. If I had a PTO generator, that would be a ncie backup to the Onan if it has a problem, because I could put that on my 'bota.


Its all in what you have on hand. And yet, I could tap my cars for gasoline for a gas generator, but then I couldn't drive out for emergency supplies (I guess I could take the 'bota if that was the case ).

 

[RonMar]

And yet, I could tap my cars for gasoline for a gas generator, but then I couldn't drive out for emergency supplies

If you can get gasoline during an extended outtage... the big storm they had year before last in Puget Sound opened quite a few eyes. Lotta people had generators, but couldn't get fuel for them cause the stations couldn't pump it out of their tanks...

 

[RalphVa]

Thought about a PTO driven unit but went with a separate 4400 watt unit that runs our kitchen, basement frig, freezer in carriage house, family room, master bedroom/bath and has enough left over to run alternatively: microwave, tiny titan heater for outside shower, heat pump for emergency heat in the basement (Soleus unit from Sams). When I want to repressurize the water system, I take everything down and run the pump until the pressure builds up. Lasts for quite a while. Haven't really figured out why I have to do this on the well pump, as it runs off a 10 amp breaker (but 220 volt; so, can be about half the generator's output on startup).

I just make sure I cut off the fuel to the engine and let the carb run dry when the power comes back on. Main problem I've had is keeping the battery charged to start the generator (you DO NOT want a pull start unit, or carefully buy one; had one impossible to pull start, but a friend's borrowed one time starts easily by hand). Used to start it once/month for 15-30 minutes. Not enough to keep the battery up. Now, I run a battery charger on timer to run about 1 hour/day trickle charge to the battery.

Natural gas or propane (propane only if its somewhere where a fuel leak can't accumulate) make a lot of sense because supplying fuel to the driver over a long period of no power can be a problem. Fortunately, my generator only requires about 1/2 gallon/hr. This is about what my tractor would need as well. I would NOT want to keep filling the tank on a big generator connected to a big tractor. Diesel, in place generator could start giving you algae or other problems unless you could also use enough in your tractor to provide enough replacement of it.

Ralph

 

[Diamondpilot]

Not sure what planet you live on.. but doller per KW.. I've never seen a pto genset cost more than a unit with it's own engine.. chinese units included.

My 12.5kw pto get cost me 1000$.. where can you buy a gas powerd 12.5kw genny for that $$ ?? I'd like to know..

soundguy

Soundguy and others

I was in this same situation a few years ago. We lost our power for 2 days so as soon as it came back on I started looking on the net. At the time I had a Ford 861 Powermaster Gas, about 38 HP on the pto. His JD 770 is a little less than 20 HP on the pto so he is quite limited. To get into a pto generator I was looking at $1500 for a 12K unit minimum through the web. I got a Troy Built Gas unit at Lowes for $799 on sale. Its 8K continuous and 13,500K surge. My wife said I was nuts and wasted my money. 2 months later we had a ice storm and lost our power for 8 days. I ran it continuously for those 8 days except to change the oil every other day or 50 hours and it used 9 gallons of gas per day. We are on a well, have propane heat, propane water heater, but the rest of our place is electric. We used it for everything, even the washer and dryer, not at the same time. She used the stove, ran our deep freezer, refridgerator, tv's, internet, lights ect. I am glad I did not go with a pto unit now because I needed the tractor to take care of the 14" of snow we got the 3 day of the 8 day outage and to start the cleanup of the debris of the ice storm.

Here is a link:
Troy Bilt Product Detail

Chris

 

[KeithInSpace]

The TroyBilt 5550 that pops up when you click on Mr. Diamondpilot's link...that's my EXACT Generator. That is what runs my ~5,000 sf house during periods of outage. It is a smidge undersized, but does quite well.

 

[Soundguy]

Northern has the 13kw units on sale for 1199$ right now..

NorthStar PTO Generator — 13,000 Watt, 24 HP Required | PTO Generators | Northern Tool + Equipment

If your 861 was only getting 38 hp on the pto I suggest you plug in the 4th spark plug wire.. those dudes make more like -48- pto hp.. which by the way is enough for about 24kw power generation...

For those that want to rely upon small disposable aluminum and zinc cast block whizz-bang lawnmower engines running 3600rpm with 5$ carbs for yuor emergency power needs.. go for it.

I -KNOW- my multi-thousand dollar high precision, non throw-away tractor engine is going to start when i turn the key.. and it don't care about setting out in the rain when it needs to.. it's made to -WORK-.. not hide.

For those worried about adding time to their tractor clock? 60 hours? that's meaningless in tractor lifespan terms.. those machines are designed to work at pto rpm, at rated load, till the fuel tank caves in..

When florida had the big storms in 2004.. you couldn't buy fuel for a couple weeks at one point. My 2 large diesels hold over 20g each, plus ai had about 25g in plastic containers, plus 30g in my pickup tank. After the first week.. I was the only one that had power on our block.. and I was the only one that had power at the end of the 2nd week too.. diesel just goes so much farther than gas when you look at those whizz-bang gennies.


It's a personal choice for sure.. trust a 200$ engine.. or a 4000$ engine to make power for you when you *really* need it choice was clear for me..

by the way.. at the time, the cheapest gas /self powerd genny I could find near that 13kw range was either a hobart welder genny in the 10kw range fro 2500$ or a generac 12kw or a 16kw unit.. 16kw unit was near 3000$.. 12kw unit was 2000$.. both gas.. I did see a diesel genny in the 10-12kw range.. forget the brand.. but was at a box store.. was 3500$.... heck.. for 3500$ i can almost go buy an old diesel ford tractor and a small pto genny!

soundguy

Soundguy and others

I was in this same situation a few years ago. We lost our power for 2 days so as soon as it came back on I started looking on the net. At the time I had a Ford 861 Powermaster Gas, about 38 HP on the pto. His JD 770 is a little less than 20 HP on the pto so he is quite limited. To get into a pto generator I was looking at $1500 for a 12K unit minimum through the web. I got a Troy Built Gas unit at Lowes for $799 on sale. Its 8K continuous and 13,500K surge. My wife said I was nuts and wasted my money. 2 months later we had a ice storm and lost our power for 8 days. I ran it continuously for those 8 days except to change the oil every other day or 50 hours and it used 9 gallons of gas per day. We are on a well, have propane heat, propane water heater, but the rest of our place is electric. We used it for everything, even the washer and dryer, not at the same time. She used the stove, ran our deep freezer, refridgerator, tv's, internet, lights ect. I am glad I did not go with a pto unit now because I needed the tractor to take care of the 14" of snow we got the 3 day of the 8 day outage and to start the cleanup of the debris of the ice storm.

Here is a link:
Troy Bilt Product Detail

Chris