Generator

[BobRip]

It seems to me that the best place for a transfer switch is between the meter and the main breaker panel. That way you can run any appliances you want and shut off power to any circuit you want through the standard breaker. These sub planel transfer switches include a lot of hokey wiring above and beyond the normal spaghetti maze. The problem is that the meter backs right up to the breaker panel in many installations including my home leaving nowhere to splipce in a TF.

Am I missing an important point?

I would like to know how to legally and safely power up my house with my big honkin loud 220 generator and since the only big appliance I have is my clothes dryer there is no reason that the generator can't fully replace grid power.

The next question is that my generator is marked as having a "floating" neutral. Are you all tying the generator to ground and using all 4 wires of the typical generator 4 prong twistlok? Or just using the two hots, the white neutral and no generator ground?

If your service is 200 amps or less, there is a transfer switch that goes between the meter and meter base. Dominion Power sells this. It is probably exactly what you are looking for.

 

[BobRip]

Well, I guess I just don't know what to look for or where... everybody says a transfer switch is cheap and easy to find... all I have located are $500 or way more... more than I spent for the generator.

Could somebody point me to the right source for a transfer switch...My needs are:

I live in the country at the end of the electric line, literally. I need to plug in my generator and power just enough to get by.. as all have said, water, microwave, referigerator. I have propane stove, hot water.

I'm just looking for a simple manual switch. As I understand it, The power will normally flow thru the switch to the house, well, etc. This means about 200 amps capacity, I think, since the Air conditioner is in the normal circuit. However, when I manually pull the switch (to be done when the power is out), then the electric company is cut completely away from the house power and the existing house wiring is powered by the generator which is connected to the other side of transfer switch.

Thus, I think I need a 3 pole double pole manual switch rated for 200 amps and outdoor installation.

Generator is a pull start gasoline coleman 5500 watts, 6250 surge if I recall correctly. It has 20 Amp circuit breakers on the 110 and 220 circuit. There is a 4 wire twist-lock plug on the side of the generator and I understand that a plug connection (about 8 gauge) between the generator and the transfer switch is needed and it is best not to have male connectors on both ends of this connection. I know that this wattage is very small for running a whole house... but I intend to have ONLY the minimum on at one time and can cut out the water well circuit breakers if need be.

At Square D I found this page of switches. General Duty Safety Switches - Light Duty Class 3130 .. and figure I need their non fused 3-way 200 amp manual DU324 switch for $589.

I am sure I'm missing something simple... will accept ideas pointing to my error and a proper and cheaper solution.

There is a transfer bracket that allows you to back feed through a normal breaker and it allows only this breaker or the main breaker to be on, not both at any given time. I make one for my panel out of a piece of steel. You can buy them for around $150. Do a web search. I will also look.

 

[schmism]

If your service is 200 amps or less, there is a transfer switch that goes between the meter and meter base. Dominion Power sells this. It is probably exactly what you are looking for.

called a connection hub

The Connection Hub

but hardly seems worth a grand $ to me.

Ive back fed my pannel (main breaker off). At my new house ill have a transfer switch and dual wired house. (with red recepticals) but also likly to have a source of renewable engery on site (read wind) so my setup is likely to be complicated at best and not an "off the shelf" solution that works for most people.

 

[Highbeam]

Schmism: the 1000$ price tag includes:

"Price includes delivery, installation, 10-foot power cord, and one-year manufacturer warranty. Longer power cords are available: 20-foot for an additional $50.00 and 50-foot for an additional $200.00."

Still I bet they wat 500$ for it. There appears to be no mechanical transfer switch and I wonder if the utility will be keen on you installing something between their meter and the base.

If it is the real deal and available for 200$ somewhere then it is looking mighty attractive.

 

[hockeypuck]

A 200 amp manual transfer switch (rain tight enclosure, fused) will cost between 400 and 500 dollars. I would not go that route. Reliance makes a 10 circuit transfer switch for about 300 dollars. This allows you to hook up 10 seperate circuits and isolate them from the rest of you panel board. I would also recommend this so you can isolate ciruits if you think that your generator maybe too small to handle all the loads that you have on you transfer switch. I would not go with anything less than 10 circuits. It is very hard to narrow it down to anything less than that. Here is an example of circuits needed for extended power loss:


1 and 2 (240 volt) well pump
3 furnace
4 refridgerator
5 basement/garage lights (need to operate the transfer switch)
6 kitchen lights
7 kitchen circuit (for microwave or toaster)
8 hall lights (so all bedrooms can have some light)
9 batroom lights (try taking a shower or taking a midnight leak in the dark)
10 Master bedroom or TV circuit (who could live with out it)

Puck

 

[BobRip]

Attached is the tranfer bracket that only allows the generator breaker or the main breaker on at any one time. Both may be off of course. I made it out of stainless, but many materials would work. I did a card board version to get the dimensions first, and copied it to metal.

The breaker on the top left is the generator breaker.

 

[Phils]

BobRip's solution is one I thought about posting but didn't because 1) I hadn't actually done it myself and 2) there's that dang "code" thing that I could not say whether it'd pass or not.

But BobRip's box is what we used on submarines to make sure that two breakers couldn't be 'on' at the same time.

Living off grid I don't have to consider "backfeeding" and therefore don't have any switches to prevent it. But BobRip showed an excellent photo of a reasonably priced answer.

Phil

 

[BobRip]

BobRip's solution is one I thought about posting but didn't because 1) I hadn't actually done it myself and 2) there's that dang "code" thing that I could not say whether it'd pass or not.

But BobRip's box is what we used on submarines to make sure that two breakers couldn't be 'on' at the same time.

Living off grid I don't have to consider "backfeeding" and therefore don't have any switches to prevent it. But BobRip showed an excellent photo of a reasonably priced answer.

Phil

There are code approved devices to do this, but I did not know about them when I came up with it. I did see something like it on a generator subpanel. That's where I got the idea. I highly recommend that you buy it if you can.

 

[techman]

I did a very similar thing on my breaker box, modeled after a Square D box/switch that I saw.

Generator is a 10 KW Deutz diesel in the shed, wired back to the house. Works great powering nearly the whole house during a power outage.

paul

 

[RonMar]

At some of the loran stations I have been at, we had alternate power sources for the transmitters. These were controlled with key lock assemblies that were bolted to the panel face. In order to get a key out of a lock assembly, you had to move the breaker to the off position. You could then turn the key which extended a bolt into the path of the breaker(like a deadbolt lock) locking it in the de-energized position. Once the bolt was extended, the key could be removed and placed into the lock on the other breaker allowing it's bolt to be retracted and that breaker energized. Like the attached pic from the Kirkkey website. The last ship I was on had transfer lockout bars like Bobrip shows to control which buss(primary or emergency) a particular sub panel was fed from. They usually went across the panel between two source breakers. Both could be off(switched outward), but the cross bar that slid allowed only one to be on(switched inward) at a time.