Generators - Backfeeding - 120V

[aczlan]

Just be careful with those suicide cords. Don't leave them anywhere anyone can have access to them, especially kids. Someone thinking they are just an extension cord could be electrocuted.
I have made them and will use them if necessary, but I just make a short jumper, paint it bright red/orange to alert attention to the fact that it is something different, and keep it in a secure place.

Put a LOTO box on the end of the cord (both plugs into it if possible) and lock it. That will keep people out of it and remind you of what it is before you use it.

Aaron Z

 

[JB4310]

We are on 17 acres...the nearest neighbor is retired and we have no kids. Unless my dog grows a thumb, she won't be using my very short double ended cord.

I don't believe there is a possibility to backfeed power down the lines with the breaker off. I have seen these new interupts that are just a piece of steel screwed to the cover of your CB panel and it prevents the main breaker from being turned on and allows the BF circuit to then be turned on. If that system is legal...what is the electrical difference to what I am doing?

Generator InterLock Kit

The interlock is a fail safe system and is legal, in other words it's idiot proof.

Remembering to shut off and lock out the main is not.

Put a LOTO box on the end of the cord (both plugs into it if possible) and lock it. That will keep people out of it and remind you of what it is before you use it.

Aaron Z

Good idea,

JB

 

[grsthegreat]

Only if your two generators happen to be exactly 180 degrees out of phase, which is so unlikely as to be essentially impossible.

/QUOTE]

Who said anything about two generators. ??

For the OP running 110 to both sides of the panel will power all circuits as well as give 220.:thumbsup:

Note: I still arn't an elecrician.

NOPE. unless the gen CAN put out 220, just hooking up both outlets from a 110 gen WILL NOT result in 220 power. I agree that all you have to do is move the upstairs breakers to the phase of the panel that is powered up....easy, done deal. As long as you dont need 220, it wont matter.

 

[grsthegreat]

OK I am not an electrician either, but I have read, either on this forum, or another one, somewhere, that even if you turn off your main breakers, there is a chance of power backfeeding into the system, through the ground.

.

If not, I'd really like to know what the safe way to hook up a generator is, besides running everything off an extension cord.

Nope, that wont happen. Even a residential grade transfer switch does not isolate the grounds or the neutrals. As long as the 2 hot legs are isolated, its safe.

NOW, i am not going to say i approve of this lock out tag out system, cause i am a licensed electrician and if i was to install the system you just mentioned id probably have my license yanked.

 

[grsthegreat]

On the diagram showing how to connect a transfer switch legally in our state (KY), it shows the utility power coming in to one set of lugs, auxiliary power coming in to the other set of lugs, and the set of hots coming from the switch going to the panel. These are all separate and can only be connected by changing the position of the switch, thus avoiding the chance of backfeeding the utility power.

However, all of the neutrals from the utility, auxiliary, and panelboard are all on the same lugset, as well as the ground from the panelboard. So it doesn't appear (to me) that there is an opportunity for the utility to be backfed from the ground or neutral (our neutrals and grounds are bonded in the panels - I don't know if this is different in different areas).

I tried to upload the diagram showing this (a .tif) but I get a "invalid file" error.

100% correct.....the neutrals are not isolated or disconnected in a residential transfer switch. I have seen them disconnect in big commercial 3 phase units, but never on a residential unit.

 

[Canada_CT230]

People aren't reading my posts correctly.

1) I know its not legal. Nor is speeding, rolling stop signs and having a few too many beers and driving that people do. Hence why I'm not discussing the legality of it.

2) I am a commercial pilot. Very well and used to doing things the same way the 100,000,000th time over and safely too. I'm not an idiot and can get past the world's reasons to design for the lowest common denominator.

3) I do NOT need 220V.

Now, I may be able to swap around some breakers to try and move some to the powered leg but this still might not work as I have NO room for expansion in the CB panel. Hence why I can't put in another line, breaker....blah...blah, etc.

I just need to know if I can power both legs of 120V to get 120V at outlets and light fixtures.

 

[sparc]

For all those that do need 220 and don't want to run a suicide cord, you might want to look into a Generlink transfer switch. www.generlink.com
I have no connection to Generlink, but I am in the process of getting one for my home.

 

[aczlan]

I just need to know if I can power both legs of 120V to get 120V at outlets and light fixtures.

Yes, in a theoretical world where you do it the same every time and nobody else will ever touch it, it will work.
But, if you get sick and your neighbor comes over to help or whatever and someone forgets to turn off something that uses 220v, it will do bad things to your generator or the 220v appliance.

Aaron Z

 

[grsthegreat]

People aren't reading my posts correctly.

1) I know its not legal. Nor is speeding, rolling stop signs and having a few too many beers and driving that people do. Hence why I'm not discussing the legality of it.

2) I am a commercial pilot. Very well and used to doing things the same way the 100,000,000th time over and safely too. I'm not an idiot and can get past the world's reasons to design for the lowest common denominator.

3) I do NOT need 220V.

Now, I may be able to swap around some breakers to try and move some to the powered leg but this still might not work as I have NO room for expansion in the CB panel. Hence why I can't put in another line, breaker....blah...blah, etc.

I just need to know if I can power both legs of 120V to get 120V at outlets and light fixtures.

the answer is .....no. you'd have to do some rewiring to power both legs of a 2 leg system off of one leg. Get some split mini breakers and add some breaker spaces to the leg thats under generator power. you'd have to rewire both sides of the panel together and do it thru a breaker powerful enough to handle the combined load. I could do it...but i wouldn't.

In an airplane i guess you could try to force a autolite sparkplug into the engine cause you cant afford a proper aviation spark plug......but would you do it???

 

[gpflepsen]

Pull the plug to a high amperage 220v outlet, like to the dryer or range. Make a jumper plug to put a short across the powered lugs that are normally 220v.

Or, at a high amperage 220v breaker, remove the circuit wires and place a jumper wire across the terminals to feed the other leg. Size the jumper wire accordingly.