LD1
Epic Contributor
I am assuming that is a geo-thermal unit you went with?
What did you decide on the loops??
Geothermal Loops?
- Thread starter powerstroke444e
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I am assuming that is a geo-thermal unit you went with?
What did you decide on the loops??
OP
powerstroke444e
Veteran Member
LD1 said:
Yes its geo thermal I went with 5 ton century 2 stage unit with 3 stage heat backup.
The loops are 3600 of 3/4 geo pipe in 3600' of trench @ 60 inches deep which put me in wet clay bay about foot.
Ask away if anyone has questions.
Local co-op put on dual meters to get power cost down to .075 per kw
LD1
Epic Contributor
Did you decide against the slinky due to your 5' trencher limit?
I need to jump in hear as I need to learn more about Geo thermal
I have 3600 sq foot house including finished basement
Original owner house built in 1995
Propane 95 % with central AC
Central unit went out 2006 replaced with Trane heat pump with original propane furnace as supplememtnal heat.
First couple of years seemed to be a cost saver over just propane
But it seems the electric rates have climbed so my level bill electric is 220.00 and I use 600 gals propane annually
Long range planning tells me to get prepared to replace my 1995 vintage propane furnace. Can you add Geo thermal my set up ? will I lose my Trane heat pump? what part of geo- therm is DIY?
I have 3600 sq foot house including finished basement
Original owner house built in 1995
Propane 95 % with central AC
Central unit went out 2006 replaced with Trane heat pump with original propane furnace as supplememtnal heat.
First couple of years seemed to be a cost saver over just propane
But it seems the electric rates have climbed so my level bill electric is 220.00 and I use 600 gals propane annually
Long range planning tells me to get prepared to replace my 1995 vintage propane furnace. Can you add Geo thermal my set up ? will I lose my Trane heat pump? what part of geo- therm is DIY?
LD1
Epic Contributor
Geo can be with propane supplement. Like your Air-to-air unit, geo needs backup. Allthough it isnt used as much as with an air-to-air unit.
No need at all for it with GEO. It is more efficent in BOTH heating AND cooling modes. If it is REALLY frigid out and you need backup heat, that Trane isnt going to do anything
Not much unless you have a way to dig thousands of feet of trench. (trencher or backhoe)
OR have a machine to charge the freon.
From what I have heard/read on GEO units, 50% of the cost is materials, 40% is the excavation, and the other 10% is installation and charging of the unit.
So unless you have a way to dig the trenches, it isnt really worth trying to do anything yourself. Just stay out of the way and let the contractors work their magic:thumbsup:
Chilly807
Elite Member
Geothermal in general is best as a designed-when-built heat system, but they can be retrofitted. Our's is designed to be used as a water-to-water system with infloor radiant heat, no A/C.
LD1 is correct about the heat pump you have now, unless it's needed to boost normal output of the geo system, it'll be redundant and less efficient to boot.
We worked with the contractor installing both the ground loops and the infloor piping. Our ground loops consist of 3500 ft of pipe laid out in "slinky" style runs in three trenches. Each trench is 6 feet deep, six feet wide, and about 100 feet long.
Excavation cost was about $1200, based on one excavator working for a full day.
Total system cost in 2008 was approx. $20K, which included everything for new construction.
Sean
OP
powerstroke444e
Veteran Member
I have the equipment to do both and had acess to a bigger trencher but purchased the software from company that I decided to go with many single pipe in a trench as it gave me the best numbers. I don't think there is a wrong way as long as you soil test and have the loop design software alone with manual J and manual d to back up the calculations.
I have several more we are going to install so the software will pay off in 1 job. Mine was a DIY but I have equipment partners and licenses to do it all, this was just 1st time for us to do a complete install for our selves and put our name on it.
I would say that a DIY is possible but pay for some one to give you some advice.
My biggest cost was the system and software. The most time consuming part was the duct work and planning. If I had it to do over I would would change very little but there is alot plan and if you mess something up it could cost $1000's.
buckeyefarmer
Epic Contributor
Geo can be a DIY, if you know what you're doing. I'm in the middle of installing two geothermal systems myself. I started by taking the IGSHPA geothermal class and became an accredited installer, then bought design software and designed the systems, including a manual J. Then I bought a backhoe, and now I am putting in slinky's. I put my 2nd slinky in today and have it on a pressure test before I backfill it tomorrow. In the end I will have 2 systems in my house for about $12k give or take, plus the backhoe. I was getting quotes of up to $40k to do these systems. I am using standalone package units, not split. They come precharged, so you don't mess with freon lines. Units are made by HeatControllers, and I used their design software. I brought all my loops inside, and will purge the loops individually with my QT non-pressurized flow centers.
I first designed using straight loops, and quickly changed to slinky's. straight loops are a LOT of digging, and you can achieve the same thing with slinky's, a lot less digging, and just a little bit more pipe. The pipe is one of the cheapest parts of the system.
I'm planning to write it up as a project when I get done, it's taking awhile because I don't have much spare time to work on it.
I first designed using straight loops, and quickly changed to slinky's. straight loops are a LOT of digging, and you can achieve the same thing with slinky's, a lot less digging, and just a little bit more pipe. The pipe is one of the cheapest parts of the system.
I'm planning to write it up as a project when I get done, it's taking awhile because I don't have much spare time to work on it.
Attachments
Redneck in training
Elite Member
The units are supplied charged with refrigerant. There are heat exchangers for outside loop usually filled with glycol mix. No gage is required but depending on your installation you might need powerfull charge pump to expel air.The inside loops are system dependent. If it is forced air or hydronic. You can do a lot DIY. The dimensions of forced air furnace are similar to gas fired units but might require duct modification. The outside loop has usually two pumps that have to be wired to the unit.
The hydronic system is somewhat more involved due to larger number of thermostats, pumps and/or automatic valves but also doable DIY.
Ok I guess I thought Geo therm didnt need supplemental heat from a electric or gas heat source. The only way it would be cost effective for me is if I needed to replace both my heat pump and my propane furnace. I'm still under warranty 10yr compressor, 10yr parts, 10yr labor on the heat pump.
just for my info
Since my mechanicals are in the walkout basement if and when I go Geo could my concrete floor be opened and a pit dug that would then allow lines to be bored under the slab and footer to a outside pit then connected to geo loops at depth? Then the condensor unit is in place of existing HVAC connected to ductwork and cooling loops?
As far as DIY sounds like the excavation could be done with rental equipment.
Rent excavator backfill with kubota tractor
just for my info
Since my mechanicals are in the walkout basement if and when I go Geo could my concrete floor be opened and a pit dug that would then allow lines to be bored under the slab and footer to a outside pit then connected to geo loops at depth? Then the condensor unit is in place of existing HVAC connected to ductwork and cooling loops?
As far as DIY sounds like the excavation could be done with rental equipment.
Rent excavator backfill with kubota tractor