I think some are not understanding the plan to plant rye. He said winter rye, which is a fast growing grain planted in the fall. It then grows to 3-5 feet tall in the spring and heads out. The roots are deep and expansive, and the top green is often plowed under in the spring, to improve the soil. It doesn't take much care to get it to grow. A broadcast spreader would work fine, followed by a light drag or a cultipacker. The fall moisture does the rest. It does a great job to loosen the soil. Rather than plowing it under, it can be sprayed or mowed and plant no-till style on top. Some are using the top growth as a mulch by rolling it flat after it dries and planting row crops on that cover.
Getting cleared area ready to plant & HP recommendations...
- Thread starter e.myers
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backdoor
Silver Member
I have done what you are talking about, 3 to 4 acres at a time. After I cleared most of the stumps, I disked the fields a few times to loosen whatever topsoil I could, sowed winter rye, I used VNS till last year, fertilized it, disked it in, then let it grow. I left most of the debris that the dozer didn't get out there to rot. Late winter or early spring I started working the field as deep as I could. I sowed soybeans or buckwheat on whatever part of the field I had worked when planting time came, worked up more of the field as I had time through the summer, and more rye in the fall. Those tasty deer really love the young rye. After a couple of years all the roots are gone, the dirt is much more tillable, and it's time for a soil test for liming. Talk to the local fertilizer sales people-Souther States co-op or whoever you have local. They can mix rye seed in with fertilizer to spread for you with their truck or their spreader buggy behind your tractor if you can pull it. Then you can disk everything in an inch or two, and let it grow. We can't buy Variety Not Stated rye here anymore, so I use Abruzzi. I've done 13 acres so far in the last few years, 11 are in fescue now, 2 acres are my deer food plot. Hope this helps.
jenkinsph
Super Star Member
i definitely see the point you are making steve, its all relative, i was leaning more toward the idea of subsoiling and shattering the hardpan. land unused for 15 or so years needs to disturbed deep for max benefit. or pulling a good sized boxscrape like was indicated in the earlier posts. even so there is a point with power to weight ratio no matter what size tractor that makes for efficient traction. best regards
Man. I don't even know where to begin. LOTS of fantastic info here and It's all kind of soaking in.
FWIW, I've all but made up my mind to go with the Kubota L4400. At some point I'll get into my explanation as to why.
Unfortunately, my deadline to come up with all the attachments etc (and make the final decision) is Wednesday (financing offer may end). So, I have a lot of questions to ask regarding implements.
Regardless, I need to get back to this thread and ask some more questions about planting this "field"... and I will. Just let me get the trigger pulled first. Right now I'm thinking based on what everyone has said, that for getting the ground in shape, I can get by with just a tiller (don't even really have to have that but I need one anyway), the old small disc I have and maybe a rented (possibly purchased) broadcast seeder.
I'm starting some more threads under implements to help with the purchase of the implements (tiller primarily).
If anyone wants to take a look there, I'd really like your input.
Really just wanted to chime in for a minute until I can get everything else figured out to say thanks for the help. Will continue with this later.
Eddie
FWIW, I've all but made up my mind to go with the Kubota L4400. At some point I'll get into my explanation as to why.
Unfortunately, my deadline to come up with all the attachments etc (and make the final decision) is Wednesday (financing offer may end). So, I have a lot of questions to ask regarding implements.
Regardless, I need to get back to this thread and ask some more questions about planting this "field"... and I will. Just let me get the trigger pulled first. Right now I'm thinking based on what everyone has said, that for getting the ground in shape, I can get by with just a tiller (don't even really have to have that but I need one anyway), the old small disc I have and maybe a rented (possibly purchased) broadcast seeder.
I'm starting some more threads under implements to help with the purchase of the implements (tiller primarily).
If anyone wants to take a look there, I'd really like your input.
Really just wanted to chime in for a minute until I can get everything else figured out to say thanks for the help. Will continue with this later.
Eddie
rambler
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2003
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- 1,994
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- MN
- Tractor
- Ford 960, 7700, TW20, 1720; IHC H, 300; Ollie S77
Rye is easy to grow, spread it, disk lightly, and watch it grow. Easy.
Legumes fix N, put a little clover or cheap alfalfa seed in with it. Won't see any until next spring, but it will be there - very slow to grow, but once it does, deep roots in 2 years, will fix N in the soil & add green manure.
Tillage radishes or even turnips will gather up nutrients in the ground & keep them near the surface for what you plan to grow next year. Getting late for them, but can still work. The tillage type of raddish can work deep roots & break up hardpans and clay. Again, you can mix these in with the other seeds.
As to your land work, hire someone to deep till your ground with a chisel plow - if someone is dumb enough to do that - or a cat with the rippers on the back - more likely. Your little tracotr will never really do that right.
Everything else a 40 hp tractor will do, and once the cat goes through, the tiller will fluff & level off the soil real nice for you.
One doesn't really make a table-top level field for crops - depends what you intend to grow long term - but you just want it smooth enough to drive on. Not 'level' but 'rolling smooth'.
Turning woodland into cropland typically is a 2 or more year process, if you are trying to do this in 6 months, it's harder work for your equipment.
Just some random thoughts, see what direction you are headed with allt his.
--->Paul
Legumes fix N, put a little clover or cheap alfalfa seed in with it. Won't see any until next spring, but it will be there - very slow to grow, but once it does, deep roots in 2 years, will fix N in the soil & add green manure.
Tillage radishes or even turnips will gather up nutrients in the ground & keep them near the surface for what you plan to grow next year. Getting late for them, but can still work. The tillage type of raddish can work deep roots & break up hardpans and clay. Again, you can mix these in with the other seeds.
As to your land work, hire someone to deep till your ground with a chisel plow - if someone is dumb enough to do that - or a cat with the rippers on the back - more likely. Your little tracotr will never really do that right.
Everything else a 40 hp tractor will do, and once the cat goes through, the tiller will fluff & level off the soil real nice for you.
One doesn't really make a table-top level field for crops - depends what you intend to grow long term - but you just want it smooth enough to drive on. Not 'level' but 'rolling smooth'.
Turning woodland into cropland typically is a 2 or more year process, if you are trying to do this in 6 months, it's harder work for your equipment.
Just some random thoughts, see what direction you are headed with allt his.
--->Paul
jimgerken
Veteran Member
I own a JD 3720. Its 44 gross HP, hydrostatic, and about 4000 lbs weighted and with loader on. It pulls a 10 foot wheel (not three-point) disk OK. If I had an 8 foot disk, that would be slightly better (could pull faster), but the 10 foot works OK.
I searched about a month ago to find a small Chisel plow, and I don't think anyone makes one small enough for my tractor. I think about four full-size chisel (twisted) shanks is all I could pull. Right now I am considering fabricating one with four shanks and a center sweep, no coulters (have disk), on wheels.
I cleared 9 acres myself this year and all I can tell you is hire a kid with an atv and dump cart to continuously pick up debris and haul it to a pile somewhere. Every time you make some sort of tillage pass you will expose another batch of debris to pick up. On my land, this included roots and sticks, rocks, metal, glass and tires. So i have many piles. You will have wood piles only, hopefully.
I searched about a month ago to find a small Chisel plow, and I don't think anyone makes one small enough for my tractor. I think about four full-size chisel (twisted) shanks is all I could pull. Right now I am considering fabricating one with four shanks and a center sweep, no coulters (have disk), on wheels.
I cleared 9 acres myself this year and all I can tell you is hire a kid with an atv and dump cart to continuously pick up debris and haul it to a pile somewhere. Every time you make some sort of tillage pass you will expose another batch of debris to pick up. On my land, this included roots and sticks, rocks, metal, glass and tires. So i have many piles. You will have wood piles only, hopefully.
Still can't decide how to handle this.
Purchasing an L4400 (44 hp) kubota tomorrow.... one decision out of the way.
Will purchase tiller with it. Need tiller for other things after I get land in order.
Bottom line is it's all on me. I can't afford to hire someone back here to subsoil for me. Need to figure out something that I can do myself- regardless as to how long it takes to do it.
One side of me says to just throw some rye seed out disc it in and let it grow. After I cut the rye, come back in throw out some clover disk that in the stubble and let it grow. Also interested in the notion of using the crops to do the subsoiling (oil seed radish, some other types radish, some other items others have mentioned). Think Alfalfa can do some serious subsoiling also. Some have (sort of anyway) indicated that this will work. Would make it so I don't have to deal with any of the roots. They will decay. Not in any real hurry to get this done, so why not? If it doesn't work, it's got to be better than if I just let it grow up in weeds. Anyone recommend an application rate of rye with this method that would without a doubt give enough cover to keep the weeds at bay? I've heard 75lbs or so per acre... maybe more.
MX track is another issue. Track will be designed as we go. First priority is a turn track. I can't afford to have a buried stump take out one of my boys. They could break something or the bike could get broken. I work on bikes enough as it is and I'd be kicking myself, if my boys got hurt or if I caused myself more work or money because I didn't find the stumps.
I need to find the stumps. Thinking that I would more than likely be able to find the stumps with the discs. All stumps should be near the surface of the ground because the trees are pine and it was forrested and row planted, the cut basically at ground level. This was done twice. Once about ten years ago (these stumps are pretty decayed by now... could kick and fall apart so no big deal to rototiller or motorccyle), and another time about 3 months ago. These are the stumps that would have been removed with the excavator and buried.
Thinking about it, seems like just the row planted pines growing out there should have had at least some subsoiling qualities administered to the soil. What do you think? Maybe the soil is not that hardpack/pan afterall.
Anyway, thinking I want to probably drag something over the property to look for stumps. Disc is one possibility
Something like this is another
Land Pride SF25 Series Scarifier
(started another thread in the attachment forum asking if my 44 hp tractor would pull it)
Also like the idea of an arenavator type implement, but not sure what that would buy me over something like this with a "land plane" dragging behind it, even if I can't get down more than 6 or so inches. Even if I only get down 4 inches, I really think I can find any stumps that might be out there.
Maybe I don't really want to go deep if I'm not planning on "farming" the land for a couple years... then again, the roots just decompose and I don't have to deal with raking them up etc., all the while my rye, clovers, turnips whatever are growing and working up the soil, fixing nitrogen etc.
What do you think?
Thanks again for everyones insight. I'm getting close!
Purchasing an L4400 (44 hp) kubota tomorrow.... one decision out of the way.
Will purchase tiller with it. Need tiller for other things after I get land in order.
Bottom line is it's all on me. I can't afford to hire someone back here to subsoil for me. Need to figure out something that I can do myself- regardless as to how long it takes to do it.
One side of me says to just throw some rye seed out disc it in and let it grow. After I cut the rye, come back in throw out some clover disk that in the stubble and let it grow. Also interested in the notion of using the crops to do the subsoiling (oil seed radish, some other types radish, some other items others have mentioned). Think Alfalfa can do some serious subsoiling also. Some have (sort of anyway) indicated that this will work. Would make it so I don't have to deal with any of the roots. They will decay. Not in any real hurry to get this done, so why not? If it doesn't work, it's got to be better than if I just let it grow up in weeds. Anyone recommend an application rate of rye with this method that would without a doubt give enough cover to keep the weeds at bay? I've heard 75lbs or so per acre... maybe more.
MX track is another issue. Track will be designed as we go. First priority is a turn track. I can't afford to have a buried stump take out one of my boys. They could break something or the bike could get broken. I work on bikes enough as it is and I'd be kicking myself, if my boys got hurt or if I caused myself more work or money because I didn't find the stumps.
I need to find the stumps. Thinking that I would more than likely be able to find the stumps with the discs. All stumps should be near the surface of the ground because the trees are pine and it was forrested and row planted, the cut basically at ground level. This was done twice. Once about ten years ago (these stumps are pretty decayed by now... could kick and fall apart so no big deal to rototiller or motorccyle), and another time about 3 months ago. These are the stumps that would have been removed with the excavator and buried.
Thinking about it, seems like just the row planted pines growing out there should have had at least some subsoiling qualities administered to the soil. What do you think? Maybe the soil is not that hardpack/pan afterall.
Anyway, thinking I want to probably drag something over the property to look for stumps. Disc is one possibility
Something like this is another
Land Pride SF25 Series Scarifier
(started another thread in the attachment forum asking if my 44 hp tractor would pull it)
Also like the idea of an arenavator type implement, but not sure what that would buy me over something like this with a "land plane" dragging behind it, even if I can't get down more than 6 or so inches. Even if I only get down 4 inches, I really think I can find any stumps that might be out there.
Maybe I don't really want to go deep if I'm not planning on "farming" the land for a couple years... then again, the roots just decompose and I don't have to deal with raking them up etc., all the while my rye, clovers, turnips whatever are growing and working up the soil, fixing nitrogen etc.
What do you think?
Thanks again for everyones insight. I'm getting close!
