Getting started?

[mantis166]

It arrived today. Thanks to advice on this site, I made my decision and received delivery of my new Jinma 284 today. I feel I got a great price from my local dealer that I heard about on this site, but he does nothing but assemble tractors and top off fluids (paid $7400 for tractor and loader installed). Seems well worth taking on the initial fluid relacement.
Now my questions. Dealer recommended changing all fluids after first 20 hours or so. Do you guys recommend changing out Chinese fluids right away instead? Also, I read the previous post conserning recommended fluids, but can you tell me where to find location of drain and fill holes for all of these areas? Manuals don't really show these things though they may be obvious to more mechanically inclined. Thanks again for help. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[F100Panel]

My take on changing out the Chinese Fluids- I "Play" with the tractor for the 1st 10 hours. Run it around in ALL the gears, 2 & 4 wheel drive to run in the gears ect & get all the junk suspended in the greases. I'll even let it set at fast idle for an hour or so & make sure I run the PTO in BOTH speeds as much as I can with no load on the PTO...The day I actually do the oil changes I'll run her around a lot to get the fluids warm enough to drain easily & be sure the casting filings & other junk in the cases is suspened in the oils so it comes out with the oil. Some even recommend flushing with diesel.. Personaly I don't have ANY theory on that 1 way or another other than to wonder how one can be sure they get all the diesel out before refilling....

If I intended to actually work the tractor I'd run it around some/as much as I could & change out the chinese fluids before I did any work with the tractor.

 

[JINMA224XR]

<font color="blue"> Do you guys recommend changing out Chinese fluids right away instead? Also, I read the previous post conserning recommended fluids, but can you tell me where to find location of drain and fill holes for all of these areas? </font>

Hey Mantis,

If the Dealer changed all the fluids then I would wait, but if he didn't , then I would change out whatever fluids that he didn't. Be sure to check all levels yourself, especially in the creeper gear box, if you have that. But knowing what I know now, I would probably flush out the transmission with either diesel fuel or kerosene fromthe get getgo.

Drains on my 224 are: 3 on the front drive-- 1 on each side at the bottom of steering and 1 in the middle. 1 on creeper just below, 1 on the transfer at side, 2 on the transmission at the rear axle on each side of center, hydralic is at the rear-- I think there is a picture of that location on JohnS site. I had to take off the pto cover shield toget to that drain plug.

Many past posts have been given on this and fluid recommendations, so it is easyto just scroll to previous posts to get that information.

I used my old diesel fuel to treat the boards on my trailer.

Get your tractors running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[greg_g]

Pretty sure 254 drains were in reasonable proximity to yours, so here goes:

hydraulics (1) rear vertical face, above PTO spline
engine (1) oil pan vertical face, right side (as viewed from operator seat)
front diff (3) center gear box vertical face front, left drive housing bottom, right drive housing bottom
rear diff (2) rear underside horizontal face
tranny (1) on left vertical face of transfer case
creeper/shuttle (1) bottom size, horizontal face above drive shaft housing
cooling system (2) radiator drain, block drain
injection pump (2) see HERE

And never wait to drain/flush/fill. Get that Asian muck out of there yesterday. After flushing, change oil and fuel filters. With luck, hydraulic screen/filter may only need cleaning. For that, see HERE. Repeat at 50 hours, flushing optional.

//greg//

 

[JohnS]

I agree with this, but check your current fluid condition and level. (engine oil, injector pump oil, hyd fluid, transmission fluid, front axle lube) If they do not look like clean 30 weight oil, then drain and replace. Don't wait 10-20hours, unless clean. Some get water contamination, and others have just found what looks to be dirty, used oil. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I didn't flush with diesel or kerosene, but wouldn't have concerns with (transmission, front axle). Just make sure you drain it the best you can. The hyd is hard to drain completly, and you always have some mixing of old and new. Would recommend doing it to the tank and filter, only ie don't pump the diesel/kero through system. Do next exchange at 50 hours.

Fuel Tank: Drain any from system before adding new. The chinese black diesel, should not be run, IMHO. Many people have had inline filters pluged, by this gunk.

Coolant: If dealer didn't, drain and flush both radiator and engine. Engine best done, with thermostat pulled. It is typical to have considerable sand/scale/etc direct from the factory (or at least it use to be). Refill with distilled water and anti-freeze mix. I use pre-charged anti-freeze specific for diesels. It was only a dollar more a gallon at TSC.


Enjoy that new tractor!

 

[mantis166]

Thank you for the advice and I do plan to change fluids this Sunday before putting any hours on my new tractor. I live about 15 miles out of the nearest town and will have time to get started this Sunday. Can someone tell me what I will need so I don't have to keep running into town especially since everything but Walmart will be closed Sunday. specifically, how much of each fluid will I likely need and what filters will I need? I know it can only be an estimate and I will use any extras over time, I just want to make sure I have enough. And thanks again for the help.

 

[bruce1966us]

6 quarts hydraulic fuid
6 quarts engine 14W40 oil
4 gallons AW 32 fluid for the rear

 

[greg_g]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( specifically, how much of each fluid will I likely need and what filters will I need? )</font>

Capacities should be in the front of the tractor user's manual, the last section of the specifications sheet. What you use is a personal choice, but my preferences are listed HERE. If you choose to use that list, simply refer to the spec sheet in the manual for quantity. Convert liters to quarts/gallons, and go shopping.

Five gallon pails are most cost effective, as it's always better to have too much - rather than too little. They're also real heavy to pour from, so transfer contents to smaller jugs - from which you can then pour into the tractor.

//greg//

 

[RonMar]

Mantis166
I cut this from the northern hydraulics tractor site www.NORTHERNTRACTOR.COM. It is for their 25HP JM254 model(basically the same engine block and drivetrain as the 284).

Engine Model: TY385
Engine Type: Three cylinder, vertical, water-cooled, 4-stroke
Fuel Tank: 5.81 Gallons
Engine Oil: 1.59 Gallons/6.36 Quarts
Front Drive Axle: 1.19 Gallons/4.76 Quarts
Transmission: 3.7 Gallons/14.8 Quarts
Hydraulics/Category 1 Hitch: 2.38 Gallons/9.52 Quarts
Radiator: 2.64 Gallons

Of course if you drain/flush the loader hydraulics you will need whatever the volume in that part of the system is.

I am not far behind you in planning this same fluid change operation. My wife and I took a little road trip down to Hoquiam last Saturday to look over Rays loader. I liked the package so much I placed an order with Ray right there. Hopefully I will have my 284/FEL sometime next week.

Good Luck.

 

[mantis166]

I am going to 'take on' changing my fluids tomorrow. Not very mechanical when it comes to figuring things out, but I will remember how to do it after the first time. One more bit of help. How do I check for proper levels when refilling? Crankcase is obvious, but is there a dipstick for other components? I would assume there is on the tranny, but how do I know if I have right amount on front and rear diff? Also, someone mentioned that hydraulic fluid will vary from manual if I have a front loader which I do. I assume large bolt above PTO spine with red paint is where I fill with AW32 hydraulic fluid. There is a small threaded piece with a hook on it in center of this bolt, but no dipstick attatched. Do I fill to top of this threaded hole? I really do appreciate you all teaching us rookies, but like others, I live out in sticks and cannot transport my tractor to have regular maintenence done. Besides, at 50 years old it is time this 'city boy' learned some of these 'simple' mechanical basics. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[JINMA224XR]

<font color="blue">How do I check for proper levels when refilling? Crankcase is obvious, but is there a dipstick for other components? I would assume there is on the tranny, but how do I know if I have right amount on front and rear diff? Also, someone mentioned that hydraulic fluid will vary from manual if I have a front loader which I do. I assume large bolt above PTO spine with red paint is where I fill with AW32 hydraulic fluid. There is a small threaded piece with a hook on it in center of this bolt, but no dipstick attatched. Do I fill to top of this threaded hole? </font>

Hey Mantis,

You should have a dipstick for the engine, transmission, front drive axle, Hydralic reservoir. The dip stick for the hydralic reservoir is pretty much close to, if not identical to the front axle dip stick, but the length may vary though.

I checked the creeper gear resevoir and the tranfer gear by leavingout the drain plug while putting in the new oil, till oil starts to drain out. Thebest way though is totake off thecover on the creeper gear reservoir to look see.

Don't forget the fuel pump oil.

Get your tractors running &
Have a nice day,
Jo /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[RonMar]

filler/dipstick/airvent should be parts 50-54 in this picture. http://johnstractor.homestead.com/files/HydPowerLift.jpg
That "Hook" is a air vent pipe to allow air to flow in/out as the fluid level changes in the tank. If you unscrew that fitting, you should find a dipstick connected to the bottom. The steering cylinder and FEL cylinders are dual acting so they return nearly the same ammount of fluid as they use when they are cycled. The FEL does contain a bit more fluid in full up position with bucket fully dumped than in full down position with the bucket fully rolled back, the difference is equal to the length and diameter of the exposed pushrods of the cylinders. In the case of Coldwaters loader, 1.125" dia X 16" X 3 rods = roughly 48 CU. IN. or 26 fluid OZ more in the tank when the FEL is lowered/bucket rolled back. The 3point is a single acting cylinder so when the 3point goes up, the resovoir level goes down and vis versa. I am guessing the hydraulic fluid level is measured with the 3point and FEL in the full lowered position. That should place the resovoir at it's highest fluid level. This dipstick, like the transmission dipstick is measured from the fully unscrewed point(just setting in the hole).

I made mention of needing more hydraulic fluid than was specified if you do a COMPLETE fluid changeout. What I was refering to was if you choose to drain ALL the fluid out of the FEL cylinders when you change the fluid in the tank. This process involves mechanically supporting and cycling the cylinders with hose fittings removed(best done with a forklift or another FEL or with the cylinders removed from the FEL). This can be an involved and POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS process.

What happens to an unsupported FEL in the raised position when you remove the UP/Raise hydraulic fitting? It comes down really fast blowing high velocity fluid out of the fitting that your wrench was connected to a moment before the last thread let go while being loosened!

The more common process, done with all the hydraulics lowered, is to drain and refill the resovoir. Once done, there is still old fluid in the cylinders and plumbing so you start up the engine and repeatedly full cycle all the hydraulics on the steering, loader and 3point. This returns the old fluid to the tank and mixes the old and new fluid in the system. Then you shutdown and do another tank drain and refill. You then startup and cycle all the system again which further dilutes the old fluid with the new. You will not get ALL the old oil out this way but 2 oil changes will get the majority of it. This of course requires twice the specified ammount of replacement fluid.

 

[mantis166]

Thank you all for further clarification. I'll let you know how it goes. Where is the mentioned fuel pump and what oil do I use there? Alos, I assume there is no danger flushing crankcase with kerosene as sugested by Greg. It seems so much more flammable and to have less viscosity than oil. But I guess it is only for a little while and no open flames inside engine. I bet my questions are funny to those who know engines, but I never really learned mechanics. Funny thing is that I sell cars for a living. Scary Huh?

 

[RonMar]

The fuel/injector pump takes up most of the left side of the engine. Here is a link to the injector pump oil change procedure on John's Jinma site. http://johnstractor.homestead.com/InjectorPump.html

Further up, on the first page of this discussion, Greg G posted a link to a discussion on lubricants and his preferences.
from what I have read, the general consensus for the injector pump is 30wt Non-detergent motor oil or air compressor oil(which is also 30WT). Some however say to use the same oil that you are using in the engine. I do not agree with this. In my experience, diesel rated lube oil is high detergent, designed to get the engine deposits broken up and moved to the oil filter. Since the injector pump is its own non circulating oil system and dosn't have a oil filter, I would go with the compressor/non detergent oil that is intended for this type application.

 

[mantis166]

Hope I am not wearing patience thin with 'dumb' questions. I'll do my best to help others after I get it figured out. Trying to familiarize myself before I start and missing few pieces of info. Crankcase is obvious so will start there. On front Diff., I see three drain plugs as Greg mentioned. Only one fill point with dipstick on left side. Does the oil flow free between these three sections so I can fill one place and take care of all three places I drained?
Found two bolts that look like drains on underside of rear diff. under hydraulic reservoir I assume is to drain rear diff. How do I refill this reservoir? Can't find a fill place so far.
Fill plug on tranny is clearly marked with red paint and dip stick. Can't find the drain for tranny. Greg said on left vertical face on his old one, but can't find it on my 284.
Found large drain for creeper above drive line like Greg said, but can't find fill for creeper. Do y0ou have to remove creeper cover? I assume that oil does not flow from tranny transfer to creeper. Thanks again for the help.

 

[greg_g]

One fill hole up front accepts oil for all three locations. Same with creeper/tranny/rear diff, the one with the red paint on it fills all three. But if you don't flush, it's a good idea to remove the creeper cover plate for a visual level check. The forward flow between tranny section and creeper section is one of those areas that benefits greatly from the kerosene flush. It doesn't take much crud to clog that passage.

Left vertical face of transfer case , not tranny case. The transfer case is below the tranny case. It's the small one to which the front drive shaft housing is connected; only a few inches below and to the rear of the creeper drain.

//greg//

 

[mantis166]

Thank you again for all of the help. I got a good start today but ran out of oil so have to finish up tomorrow. I changed oil and filter in crankcase, changed oil in injector pump, and flushed front diff, rear diff., tranny, and creeper with kerosene. Didn't have enough 80w90 on hand to refill all the way so will go to town and get more in morning. Then, just have to change hydraulic fluid. Two interesting things. Oil came out kind of lumpy from tranny and creeper. Dip stick looked like it was covered with vaseline. Second, when I drained kerosine out of rear diff and emptied bucket, there were two small brass washers in bucket. Not sure where they came from but rather have them in bucket than elsewhere. Thanks again, all.