GFCI circuts?

MossRoad · Jan 30, 2003

Does this guy just not like me or is there some reason I am missing about the GFCI circuits. 

Yes and yes. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Just kidding.

Don't take it personally. Just take his recommendations and implement them. You will not be sorry you have lights by the doors and you will be safer with GFCI circuits. Turn it around and thank him for recommending the door lights, tell him its a nice touch and get the inspection passed. Then let it go and enjoy your workshop. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

gws · Jan 30, 2003

The problem is two fold. Do you need them and what does the inspector want. On some of your garage circuits I woudnt want them, on some I would. gfci breakers are a bit expensive, but outlets are not. Depending on how many outlets you have it might be easy to just put a gfci breaker.
Now the other issue, If your going to get the same inspector each time your going to have to do what he wants to do to pass inspections. If he wants to be a pain he can. NEC is a good start but local code will augment it. Ask for the specfic code referance for the gfci. If he cant or will not provide it call the city and ask them about it. Overall the inspector will get what he wants in most cases and a $30 gfci breaker is a lot cheaper than a noisy pissed off inspector.

Inspector507 · Jan 30, 2003

Al,
Here, we interpret the NEC® to say ALL outlets in a bedroom needs AFCI protection. An outlet is defined as a point in the circuit that utilization equipment can be connected. That means all receptacles and lights need it. Yes, that includes smoke detectors and paddle fans, although some paddle fans will trip an AFCI breaker out, due to the motor itself. Approx. 40% of all residential fire deaths occur in the bedroom. And that is where you are the LEAST attentive to your surrounding. Makes a good argument I'd say.

RobS · Jan 30, 2003

So Inspector, what is AFCI and how do I get it? It sounds like something I may want to at least look into. On the other hand, maybe it's something I already have /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Inspector507 · Jan 30, 2003

RobS,
AFCI= Arc Fault Circuit Interupter
Supposedly detects an arc in the circuit. If it lasts for a pre-set time limit, it trips out. It will not trip out if the vacuum (or other appliance) is plugged in while turned on, thats too short of a time.
Too many fires happen from a shorted cord ( extension cord or lamp cord.....etc.)
It is something I will be adding to my house soon. They are only available as a breaker that installs in the panel. For the obsolete panels there is none that I know of just yet. Could add a sub-panel and move those bedroom circuits into the new panel and put them on AFCI's.

PitbullMidwest · Jan 31, 2003

Here, we interpret the NEC® to say ALL outlets in a bedroom needs AFCI protection...Approx. 40% of all residential fire deaths occur in the bedroom. 

Inspector507, not that I doubt you but of that 40% what percentage is caused by electrical fires started in the bedroom as opposed to say smoking in bed or electrical fires started elsewhere in the house?

Inspectors should recommend and encourage homeowners to go beyond the minimum required by the codes, not impose their will on them and then cause future troubles when they decide to meet the minimum required.

BAC · Jan 31, 2003

Inspector507

Thanks for the information on the code. This guy may not be so bad after all because it seems he could make me put the GFCI plugs in the barn as well as the workshop. I may go ahead and do all the circuits even those in the barn, while I'm at it, just to be safe. I still don't understand the outside lights though.
Thanks for the information from all you other guys as well. Good information abounds on this site.

Inspector507 · Jan 31, 2003

Homeowners are encouraged to go beyond the minimum, around here, but they barely are even able to get close to minimum.
I guess I didn't understand what you meant by......and then cause future troubles when they decide to meet the minimum required

Jerry

PitbullMidwest · Jan 31, 2003

I guess I didn't understand what you meant by......and then cause future troubles when they decide to meet the minimum required

"they" being the homeowner

Well, I guess I meant what others have stated about "pissing off" the inspector if you don't concede to their every demand. When we built our house we had 2 inspectors, inspector number one would make his recommendations and if we decided not to follow those recommendations (after discussing them with our contractor) he would say "sure that's fine, you meet the code and that's why I'm here".

Inspector number 2 never made recommendations, he simply said "here's what you're going to do". When questioned if code required what we're going to do, he would reply that he "liked to see a higher standard than just meeting the codes." When we disagreed with him and told him we met code and weren't going to follow his "recommendations" he would threaten to issue stop work orders until he could review the codes further.

Fortunately, no. 2 worked for no. 1 and he would explain to us why inspector 2 wanted what he wanted but always stated that if we met the code, that was good enough. We implimented a lot of their recommendations, but knew if we didn't, no. 2 would cause us grief the next time he showed up.

Inspector507 · Jan 31, 2003

Pitbull,
Actually I have an inspector that resemebles Inspector 2 sooo much /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif. I'm trying to pull the reins in, but it's hard.
I think Inspector 2 is over-stepping his authority and is a butt-head of an inspector. I will tell anyone on the site what the code requires and that is basically the minimum requirements they need to meet. If they feel like going over and above by doing XYZ, they may be thankful in the future.

If he'd like to see a higher standard, the code making panels accept proposals for changes everyday. Maybe he needs to try.