Global Warming News

[FallbrookFarmer]

Hi all,

Interesting table
http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/National-Debt-GDP.gif

Easy to find evidence of this trend also:
As Health Costs Soar, More Find Care Overseas at SmartMoney.com

As Health Costs Soar, More Find Care Overseas
WHEN SHE WAS diagnosed with a fibroid tumor last year, Kathleen Dodds found herself in a bind. She didn't have health insurance because she couldn't afford it. With no insurance, the surgery she needed was prohibitively expensive.
"They were quoting me $30,000, tentatively, paid out of pocket," says Dodds, 42, a Portland, Ore.-based horse trainer. "There was no way I could afford it here."

But 7,200 miles away in India was an affordable solution. Through IndUSHealth, a company in Raleigh, N.C., that arranges medical care in India for U.S. citizens, Dodds flew out to the Apollo hospital in Delhi, where she had a successful hysterectomy that allowed her to return to her horseback riding students just two-and-a-half weeks later.
The total cost: just under $10,000, including round-trip airfare, transportation to and from the hospital, a one-week hospital stay where she says she was treated with more care and attention than she had ever experienced in the U.S., capped by 10 days at a "gorgeous hotel."


Read more: As Health Costs Soar, More Find Care Overseas at SmartMoney.com As Health Costs Soar, More Find Care Overseas at SmartMoney.com

US has some of the best care that MONEY can buy but to say it isn't rationed hear is not true. We have more easily avoidable deaths than most industrialized countries. Remember that about 50% of our expenditures are public money's now.

On a personal note - spoke with my 78 year old uncle who did very well with the local utility for about 40 years and also started and ran a heating business in his spare time. Financially he's way better off that me. His wife Alzheimer Disease and he has had some heart issues. I've always considered him very conservative so I was surprised when he told me that he didn't know how he would make it without Medicare.


Loren

Loren:
Please help me. If I get the gist of these articles, If you want the best health care, it costs a lot.
If the price of health care becomes "too" expensive, then people offer competitive alternatives, that people flock to.
Hence competition works?
Yes, I agree that health care is rationed by price. So? What other "scarce resource" isn't?
As to the Phrase "easily avoidable deaths" is that like "jobs created or saved". Another of those sounds good, but very hard to define phrases.

 

[Loren49]

Loren

Fed gas tax 18.4 cents /gal and used for infrastructure
How Often Is the Gas Tax Raised? Most Americans Have No Clue INFRASTRUCTURIST

Tax by state 8 to 30 cents
Gas Taxes

Breakdown of cost of $3 per gallon gas
Dissecting a gallon of gas - who get's what - Mar. 13, 2008

Loren

 

[Loren49]

FallbrockFarmer:
We agree, Healthcare is rationed under both systems as is every other resource of service. I think that's what you just said. If you google overseas health care you will see that this is not isolated. Blue Shield in California was contracting with 3 hospitals in Mexico to lower costs. We've got a problem. Note that our system has denied the right to go to Canada for considerably less expensive medicines.

Loren

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

FallbrockFarmer:
We agree, Healthcare is rationed under both systems as is every other resource of service. I think that's what you just said. If you google overseas health care you will see that this is not isolated. Blue Shield in California was contracting with 3 hospitals in Mexico to lower costs. We've got a problem. Note that our system has denied the right to go to Canada for considerably less expensive medicines.

Loren

Yes, you understood perfectly,
Who is it who is denying you to go to Canada for less expensive medicine? Is it the same people who want to
"reform" the system? Hmmmm?

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

N.L. Premier Williams set to have heart surgery in U.S.

Drudge, just picked up the story.
You sir, are ahead of the curve!

 

[IH3444]

Former Polish President Lech Walesa Endorses Ill. GOP Candidate, Local Media Ignore | NewsBusters.org

Lech Walesa: 羨merica Is Moving Toward Socialism - Big Government

 

[Loren49]

I feel we're asking the wrong question. The rich of all countries will be taken care of. Do all US citizens have the health care coverage as our law makers? My question is how are the rest of the people of the given societies taken care of? Is there a reason that it is a benefit (not just moral but financial) for everyone to have basic preventive care so that a relatively simple procedure (ex hysterectomy) may take place before a cancer develops and spreads. In our country the final stages of many preventable diseases have shortened many lives and been very costly. Many people who are uninsured or under insured are not lazy but have only the skills for near minimum wage class jobs. There is no way they can afford to pay for insurance at the going rates. Should they die early because of that. (the Scrooge BG-before ghosts strategy) I predict that the Scrooge AG-after ghosts-would favor a society that provides basic healthcare for all.

Loren

ps: I was in the uninsured class for quite a while - I was farming- working 365 days a year - only 6hrs on Sundays if all went well - I was lucky - My family stayed relatively healthy I was in the "decrease the surplus population" group

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

I feel we're asking the wrong question. The rich of all countries will be taken care of. Do all US citizens have the health care coverage as our law makers? My question is how are the rest of the people of the given societies taken care of? Is there a reason that it is a benefit (not just moral but financial) for everyone to have basic preventive care so that a relatively simple procedure (ex hysterectomy) may take place before a cancer develops and spreads. In our country the final stages of many preventable diseases have shortened many lives and been very costly. Many people who are uninsured or under insured are not lazy but have only the skills for near minimum wage class jobs. There is no way they can afford to pay for insurance at the going rates. Should they die early because of that. (the Scrooge BG-before ghosts strategy) I predict that the Scrooge AG-after ghosts-would favor a society that provides basic healthcare for all.

Loren

ps: I was in the uninsured class for quite a while - I was farming- working 365 days a year - only 6hrs on Sundays if all went well - I was lucky - My family stayed relatively healthy I was in the "decrease the surplus population" group

Loren,
I can absolutely 100% guarantee that you will NOT have the same healthcare as your lawmakers. I am offering odds.
Any takers?

 

[Loren49]

Hi all.

This shows some of our challenge - lots of spending in later years (not necessarily good results if we compare life expectancy)
Health Care Costs Per Country | Graphics | Allianz Knowledge

Poland healthcare
US spent 16% GDP in 2007, Poland spent 6.4% (mostly public system)
Lots of comparisons
Healthcare spending charts Healthcare charts

Loren

 

[dave1949]

Please furnish me the Percentage of patients that are flown/moved/in some other way furnished with advanced care , that they wouldn't haven't gotten, if not for socialized medicine.
Please furnish me with names of the countries that have a better result in outcomes of treatment, and have "smarter" systems.
Further question: Define "smarter system"
When living in Germany, did you notice the price of gasoline, when you were receiving your "free" health care.
That "you didn't notice" any problems with?
You are absolutely correct that only in a "Utopian World"
does one receive does everyone get the best of everything without limit. Lets see, which set of Politicians are promising that. Hmmmm?

You are capable of doing your own homework. Check national longevity and infant mortality rates for starters. Statistically, we will take a hit when compared to other more homogenous populations, but that isn't the whole story. By more homogenous I mean they have fewer and smaller pockets of poverty. Maybe our healthcare policy contributes to our larger numbers of poverty areas.

When you end the question with 'if not for socialized medicine' you are showing a bias against any result that doesn't agree with your own opinion.

A daughter of my best German friend was flown out of Germany for a procedure. When I expressed my amazement, they explained it to me, much as I have to you. I assure you, they are very ordinary people.

A 'smarter' system would be one that delivers healthcare without costing as much. Do you disagree that we pay at least 25% more than the other industrialized countries for healthcare? If Germany and other countries have determined it is more cost effective to move patients to specialists, and they pay less than we do - what is there you don't grasp in that? Based on economic principals, we don't pay $2 for something we can get for $1.

When I say 'I didn't notice' I mean I want to be careful about absolutes. If Germany has even a mild healthcare quality problem, they hid it from me well

As a person living under the NATO Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA), I paid for my health care. Fortunately, I have only been to a doctor a couple times in my adult life, and never for any serious problems. Therefore, I can only 'notice' as opposed to experience.

German workers pay into a healthcare system, I don't know the percentage of pay withheld for this. I doubt the price of gas has much to do with it.
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/reprint/13/4/22.pdf

As to the price of gas, yes it is high, their major roads are also better built and maintained than ours. You seldom see our slapdash skim coats of asphalt applied there. Don't know how much autobahn driving you may have done, but it takes very good roads besides good cars if you want to survive 130 MPH driving in traffic.

Germany imports 100% of it's oil I believe, there is no domestic production to offset global market fluctuations. Their situation is different in that regard. Obviously, the Germans have made it a priority to reduce their dependence on foreign energy, one method is by limiting consumption through prices. Does that cost the typical German taxpayer more than our tax costs of a few wars and military bases all over the place?

As to political promises, we still haven't paid off the the two wars while cutting taxes. That was a heck of a promise, we will be paying on that one for a long time.
Dave.