Global Warming?

[charlz]

I have been waiting for you to explain your free electricity.

Rebates, incentives, government subsidization... it was only 'free' to him. Taxpayers, co-op customers etc are the ones who actually paid for his system.

 

[crash325]

Rebates, incentives, government subsidization... it was only 'free' to him. Taxpayers, co-op customers etc are the ones who actually paid for his system.

Red Neck says it only cost us $128.00 per family. Isn't that nice, maybe we should pay a little more. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

[houstonscott]

If you are willing to do your own work, generating power with NG running a one cylinder generator is the cheapest power you could install at your property. Recovering the heat from the exhaust to heat water and space. However you would have to run the system yourself, and there would be times you are down for maintenance but this is by far the cheapest thing you could do if you are capable operating and maintaining it. As all this natural gas comes online from fracking it will only get cheaper, and it's very clean too.

HS

 

[Rob-D]

Very Good Rob.:thumbsup:

Lets see ... I can think of three major factors in gas behavior, temperature, pressure and partial pressure the the observed gas. What is going to change the behavior of the gas that cannot be provided for in the lab?

It's not the behavior of the gas it's the unknowns that affect it. We know how a gas behaves.

Do we know what the temperature of the planet would be without the gas? No.

 

[Rob-D]

If you are willing to do your own work, generating power with NG running a one cylinder generator is the cheapest power you could install at your property. Recovering the heat from the exhaust to heat water and space. However you would have to run the system yourself, and there would be times you are down for maintenance but this is by far the cheapest thing you could do if you are capable operating and maintaining it. As all this natural gas comes online from fracking it will only get cheaper, and it's very clean too.

HS

It's not a "clean" process, you have to add the extraction, the polluted groundwater, earthquakes, etc. You literally blow up the ground and then pump "proprietary chemicals back in where the gas came from. There's a reason the fracking corporations don't want to tell us what those chemicals are!

The cheap 'come on' will get expensive pretty fast once people get hooked on gas just like fossil fuel. Or do you think those gas prices are going to drop?

Good luck with that.

We have Norse from Scandinavia wanting to come in here and take trillions of dollars of gas out of the state. why are we giving away our resources? My congressman hides in a corner when I ask him that question.

You want to talk about America buying from China, this is just as bad.

Rob

 

[Rob-D]

Just love the round circle thinking of the Real Experts. Just keep going in circles and counterdicting yourselves.

Solar 10 / 15 years ago, clear back to 1983 and they are all still working at at least 90%. Wow a hole 90% of 75 watts. About 1 light bulb.

In the Last 10 years they are now putting out 250 watts.
If memory is correct I said "10 years ago solar panels were not much good. Isn't great they are still working. How many acres did you have to clear to put those suckers in?? All the stuff needed to make them even work is no longer needed. What did you do with all that junk that is not needed now???

Global Warming became "Climate Change" when it was found out all the Warmie scientists were faking data to support their claims.

Rob D
Now for about the 3rd time. Tell me how much worse global warming is than global cooling. Global Cooling in my mind would be far worse, so if were are warming maybe it will save our butts.

Links - links - links - What side of what do you want me to come down on, there is a link to support it.

I can and do think for myself, which it appears most of you greenies don't. As said before if being energy efficient does not fit into your Narrow Idea of what is green its no good.

How much used / recycled lumber & steel did you use when building your house and stands for your solar panels??? While I am using 1 PU you will go through several of you little green Subbies.

How much cleaner was it to move a house (stick built) than to build a new 1??? Building with Adobe self made (for you uninformed that's a Dirt brick) is a pretty green thing. Also walls made of them are what is considered "Passive Solar". Day time heat slowly comes in during night time cooling.

Said this before - try to hear it this time. I am no fan of Oil co's, was really screwed by ARCO many years ago.

With that said, Oil co's pay more taxes to the government than any other single industry. They are the single largest employer in the USA.

Gotta quit for now the Mexican Air Force is strafing my yard.

You're 100% correct. (probably more)

Rob

 

[mostly_gas]

It's not the behavior of the gas it's the unknowns that affect it. We know how a gas behaves.

Do we know what the temperature of the planet would be without the gas? No.

That's where research comes in. I thought you said you knew how science works. I really want to hear what people are telling MIGHT affect gas behavior.

 

[Rob-D]

That's where research comes in. I thought you said you knew how science works. I really want to hear what people are telling MIGHT affect gas behavior.

Than go do an internet search.

 

[Loren49]

Crash - My few thousand dollars worth of solar panels supply about 90% of my electricity requirement. I don't use much compared to most. This should not be threatening or difficult to understand. At home I do not put any pressure on the Grid or the need for its upgrade or expansion. I received no direct subsidy for the purchase of the solar panels or the inverter, regulator, etc. Most of my panels have been in use for more than 15 years. It is doable and affordable. Its been paid for for a long time and will continue to produce for many years. It is seldom that a panel will suddenly fail. They just slowly decrease in efficiency and I believe the fact is they are producing at a much higher efficiency than was predicted when they were manufactured.

By the way, my wife has stayed so far (41 years) and we raised two sons who are employed (teacher and mechanical engineer) and my dog Phoebe seems well adjusted. Its really ok to do things a little different than most.

I use a few LED lights that are very efficient - so my 75 watt panel will produce enough for about 6 bulbs - and we often run 2 at a time - one for me and one for my wife - we leave Phoebe in the dark. Remember that our Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution with no light bulbs. Its not UnAmerican to use little electricity.

Loren

 

[mostly_gas]

Everything ... physical ie space occupied by gas etc,etc, and chemical ie reactivity to other substances etc,etc. It was an all inclusive term back when I studied gas behavior.

 

[Rob-D]

Everything ... physical ie space occupied by gas etc,etc, and chemical ie reactivity to other substances etc,etc. It was an all inclusive term back when I studied gas behavior.

Gee, your moniker is mostly gas who would have guessed you were just fishing?

Boy, was I fooled!

 

[SPYDERLK]

I did some research about energy involved.

Found it here: http://www.ocean.washington.edu/courses/envir215/energynumbers.pdf

World energy consumption is about 4X10^20 (That is 4 followed by 20 zeroes) Joules.
Hiroshima bomb released 10^14 (1 followed by 14 zeros) Joules.
So world consume 4.000.000 Hiroshima bombs/year. That is about 10800 bombs/day.

The sun is our best source of energy. Clean, cheap, and the world has millions and millions of years of it.

Yes, but according to my calculation only 70,080,000,000,000,000,000,000 W-seconds of energy fall on the earths surface each year. This is barely two hundred times our own quoted energy consumption. I assume this does not include the energy we consume/recycle as food nor that consumed by other life or the percentage reflected or radiated to space . The earth is in big trouble.
larry

 

[mostly_gas]

Gee, your moniker is mostly gas who would have guessed you were just fishing?

Boy, was I fooled!

Yes Rob some of your finest critical thinking, equaled only by you knowledge of science.

 

[bcp]

Past warming figured out:
----------------------------------------------------
BBC Nature - Dinosaur gases 'warmed the Earth'

Giant dinosaurs could have warmed the planet with their flatulence, say researchers.
...
By scaling up the digestive wind of cows, they estimate that the population of dinosaurs - as a whole - produced 520 million tonnes of gas annually.

They suggest the gas could have been a key factor in the warm climate 150 million years ago.

 

[EE_Bota]

"How much money does the U.S. government give oil, gas and coal companies?
Estimates of the value of U.S. federal subsidies to the domestic oil and gas industry alone (not coal) range from ç™»nly $4 billion a year, to an amazing $41 billion annually. One recent comprehensive study of U.S. energy subsidies (see graph below) identified $72.5 billion in federal subsidies for fossil fuels between 2002-2008, or just over $10 billion annually. For more information on the range of subsidies, see below.

But in the end, it proved to be an uphill battle to get the Super Committee to take a stand on fossil fuel subsidies and perhaps thatç—´ not so surprising, given the influence of fossil fuel industry money on the Super Committee. Eight Super Committee members received over $300,000 in contributions from the fossil fuel industry since 1999: Senators Back us (D-MT), Kyl (R-AZ), Portman (R-OH), and Toomey (R-PA), and Representatives Camp (R-MI), Clyburn (D-SC), Hensarling (R-TX), and Upton (R-MI)."

Sure industry gets 'tax breaks' but why are we giving the API those breaks? Are we getting a deal at the pump?

Rob

Raising taxes won't assure a deal at the pump either, but I'm sure you know that, and would prefer higher prices anyway...so that alternatives look more attractive.

According to this chart, and you can rank the columns, the oil sectors don't look misplaced in the rankings relative to other industry groups. It is only the scale that is huge, not the percents. I know you hate the scale, since you don't like massive use of the product, and if the scale were smaller, it would be less bothersome to you. I get that.

Industry Browser - Yahoo! Finance - Full Industry List


This PDF is from the API, and although they meander a bit, it is still interesting, and gives their perspective about the taxing of the various sectors, compared to non-petroleum based enterprises.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=api%20tax%20breaks&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CGgQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sunsetoilandgaspartners.com%2Fresources%2FIndustry_Overview_Taxes_Benefits.pdf&ei=RaipT5uLGoW29QScyfSbAw&usg=AFQjCNFXbAnQ2d9aO-PmO-ERvQ8JdSrkBg&cad=rja

To me, the taxation looks fairly reasonable but a bit heavy. I know it is from the API, and you may deem that biased out of hand, but confirm the bias, don't merely assume it.

There is more to taxation than "you have money, I've got plans, cough it up." However, depending on the plans, I do prefer the honesty of that approach to the half truths and vilification of businesses I invest in. If the plans are good, I may very well cough up...depending on whether I think my own government is lying to me and ripping me off again.

None of that in this case, they were not serious at all. I know you are Rob, but you have to see..they were not serious at all. Zero real chance, zero real intent..just electioneering only.

 

[Rob-D]

Raising taxes won't assure a deal at the pump either, but I'm sure you know that, and would prefer higher prices anyway...so that alternatives look more attractive.

According to this chart, and you can rank the columns, the oil sectors don't look misplaced in the rankings relative to other industry groups. It is only the scale that is huge, not the percents. I know you hate the scale, since you don't like massive use of the product, and if the scale were smaller, it would be less bothersome to you. I get that.

Industry Browser - Yahoo! Finance - Full Industry List


This PDF is from the API, and although they meander a bit, it is still interesting, and gives their perspective about the taxing of the various sectors, compared to non-petroleum based enterprises.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=api%20tax%20breaks&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CGgQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sunsetoilandgaspartners.com%2Fresources%2FIndustry_Overview_Taxes_Benefits.pdf&ei=RaipT5uLGoW29QScyfSbAw&usg=AFQjCNFXbAnQ2d9aO-PmO-ERvQ8JdSrkBg&cad=rja

To me, the taxation looks fairly reasonable but a bit heavy. I know it is from the API, and you may deem that biased out of hand, but confirm the bias, don't merely assume it.

There is more to taxation than "you have money, I've got plans, cough it up." However, depending on the plans, I do prefer the honesty of that approach to the half truths and vilification of businesses I invest in. If the plans are good, I may very well cough up...depending on whether I think my own government is lying to me and ripping me off again.

None of that in this case, they were not serious at all. I know you are Rob, but you have to see..they were not serious at all. Zero real chance, zero real intent..just electioneering only.

You do make your points EE.

Rob

 

[Rob-D]

Yes Rob some of your finest critical thinking, equaled only by you knowledge of science.

If you had read any of my posts you would have seen that my focus is on addressing world pollution, which, again, is the problem and is affecting our lives and our planet.

Fossil fuel is directly responsible for that pollution. Why debate whether CC is occurring when we can address the true core issue, pollution?

With that said, who wouldn't want to address pollution from oil and coal?

On another note, right now I'm in the middle of a complex microprocessor algorithm (floating point math) in assembly language, maybe you might want to lend a hand with it?

What's my point? Science is a big field, we all have our areas of expertise.


Rob

 

[Rob-D]

If you are willing to do your own work, generating power with NG running a one cylinder generator is the cheapest power you could install at your property. Recovering the heat from the exhaust to heat water and space. However you would have to run the system yourself, and there would be times you are down for maintenance but this is by far the cheapest thing you could do if you are capable operating and maintaining it. As all this natural gas comes online from fracking it will only get cheaper, and it's very clean too.

HS

Do You know why we stopped using tape drives and went to digital technologies in audio and video?

It's for the same reason PV is a better solution than Wind. Mechanical moving parts require maintenance and parts replacement. So when you say "cheapest" how are you arriving at that?

You constantly pay for the gas and you have to maintain the machinery. Why do you think that's better than a PV module with no moving parts that puts out energy whenever the sun shines?

You're advocating old technology as a solution. Are you typing on an old mechanical typewriter here? Why not? You could write a letter and mail it and I could write a return and mail it back. That's what technology affords us.

An electronic device with no moving parts will easily outlast a mechanical one.

Rob

 

[SPYDERLK]

Yes, but according to my calculation only ... Edit:[60x]70,080,000,000,000,000,000,000 W-seconds of energy fall on the earths surface each year. This is barely two hundred times our own quoted energy consumption. I assume this does not include the energy we consume/recycle as food nor that consumed by other life or the percentage reflected or radiated to space . The earth is in big trouble.
larry

Oo-ops missed by a factor of 60 too low. We only use about 1/12,000 the amount of sun energy hitting the earth. Wheww. Had me worried.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

Do You know why we stopped using tape drives and went to digital technologies in audio and video?

It's for the same reason PV is a better solution than Wind. Mechanical moving parts require maintenance and parts replacement. So when you say "cheapest" how are you arriving at that?

You constantly pay for the gas and you have to maintain the machinery. Why do you think that's better than a PV module with no moving parts that puts out energy whenever the sun shines?

You're advocating old technology as a solution. Are you typing on an old mechanical typewriter here? Why not? You could write a letter and mail it and I could write a return and mail it back. That's what technology affords us.

An electronic device with no moving parts will easily outlast an unmaintained mechanical one.

Rob

A plain main bearing fed filtered oil will last a significant part of forever.
larry