Thanks, for letting me know what is going on. It was taking me probably around 20 seconds or so to start it. And I just couldn't figure that out, as when I had the 4100 here for a few days, it would start in something like 3 or 4 seconds cold. Then to get this one, and it wouldn't you wonder if there is something wrong with it. Its only got a little over 2 hours on it now, so hated to think there was something wrong with it. He had to have Deere deliver it to him, from another dealer, in the next state, and it had set there since last April, so one never knows. I feel better about it now, I'll start it the new way now. Probably won't need to today, as we are having one of those rare times of 76 today they are saying, I'll take it.
Glow Plugs on my 4110
- Thread starter pruntyc
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Hypernix
Gold Member
When my 4110 had under 10 hours, I could here the "clunk" loud and clear, but now I barely hear it. Another way is to watch the lights on the instrument panel, they will dim while the plugs are heating and then be brighter when the plugs are ready.
I do use the method the others have mentionned (PTO engaged or gear in Low or High) and it works very good. Also a block heater helps big time when starting at -20 C /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Hypernix
I do use the method the others have mentionned (PTO engaged or gear in Low or High) and it works very good. Also a block heater helps big time when starting at -20 C /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Hypernix
joes_427_vette
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2004
- Messages
- 1,273
- Location
- Midwest
- Tractor
- IH Cub Lo Boy, 955 John Deere , TC 55 DA New Holland, Bolens HT 20 and 1456
First off... thanks for the glow plug info. I started mine yesterday and thought about posting as I can not tell when they are working or not working. For those of you that put in a block ( freeze plug ) heater, is this a JD item only or a common size? Also which location is it installed? Can you punch the freeze plug in at one side like other applications ? Thanks jr
I think I will have to agree with Mike. I don't believe mine work at all, so can't hear anything. Mine is a 2005, so maybe they changed them on the late models???? And it don't start like they are working either. The only reason, I can see for the change is, maybe with them coming on everytime the key is turned on, maybe they were haveing to replace a lot of them for burning our, be my guess. I'll be starting mine in a little while, so I'll let you know how it works on mine.
jrwattsjr
Member
My manual does not talk about any glow plugs, and I look all over my engine and there is no glow plugs. I wondering if this is a options or they added glow plug to later versions of the tractor. Where is the glow plugs located on your tractors?
Gunfighter
Silver Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2002
- Messages
- 237
- Location
- West Michigan
- Tractor
- JD 790, Steiner 230, IH 340U, Farmall Super C, Farmall C, IH Cub Cadet, Wheel Horse 8.75
Not all tractors have glow plugs. I have a J.D. 790 with the 91 cu.in. engine.
It's a direct injections engine and does not have glow plugs. In their place there
is a air intake heater built into the manifold but you only need to use it when
the temperature is below freezing, otherwise is starts like my gas car/truck.
I presently keep the tractor in a tool shed where the temp doesn't get below
40 degree's, I haven't use the intake heater in over two years...
The diesels engines with indirect injection (swirl chamber) almost all have and
need glow plugs for a quick start on a cool day... I have a turf tractor with a
indirect injection Kubota diesel. If you want a quick start, it needs glow plugs
when temps are in the 60/70s ortherwise you'll crank five or six second...
Richard
West Michigan.
It's a direct injections engine and does not have glow plugs. In their place there
is a air intake heater built into the manifold but you only need to use it when
the temperature is below freezing, otherwise is starts like my gas car/truck.
I presently keep the tractor in a tool shed where the temp doesn't get below
40 degree's, I haven't use the intake heater in over two years...
The diesels engines with indirect injection (swirl chamber) almost all have and
need glow plugs for a quick start on a cool day... I have a turf tractor with a
indirect injection Kubota diesel. If you want a quick start, it needs glow plugs
when temps are in the 60/70s ortherwise you'll crank five or six second...
Richard
West Michigan.
I think, from what I read all the 4100 and 4110's have glow plugs. And from what I read, the 790's have I think about the same thing my old YM1700 Yanmar had they called thermostart. It lights a small amount of diesel in the intake and heats it there. It worked great on the old Yanmar, so I'm sure it does on the 790. But different tractors have glow plugs and some the intake heaters. I think the glow plug is faster, not maybe better, but they both work.
Gunfighter
Silver Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2002
- Messages
- 237
- Location
- West Michigan
- Tractor
- JD 790, Steiner 230, IH 340U, Farmall Super C, Farmall C, IH Cub Cadet, Wheel Horse 8.75
The J.D 790 is a Yanmar tractor in total, not just the engine. According to the
dealer the 790 has a electric heating coil attached to the manifold. Below
freezing you turn the key to heat for 15 to 20 seconds then start it.. Before I
had the tool shed, I'd sometime forget to use the heater and have started the
engine in the low 20s but it smoked and the exhausted stank more then usual
till it warmed up...
Below you'll find a brief explanation of Direct and Indirect injection engines...
Richard
West Michigan.
DIRECT-INJECTION AND INDIRECT-INJECTION
The two fuel injection processes used in diesel engines, direct-injection (DI) and indirect-injection (IDI), are illustrated in Figures 6-2 and 6-3 (see below). In a DI engine, fuel is injected directly into the cylinder above the piston. In an IDI engine, fuel is injected into a small prechamber connected to the cylinder via a narrow passage that enters the prechamber tangentially. During the compression process, air is forced through this passage, generating a vigorous swirling motion in the prechamber. Then fuel is injected into the prechamber and ignition occurs there. The combination of rapidly swirling air in the prechamber and the jet-like expansion of combustion gases from the prechamber into the cylinder enhances the mixing and combustion of the fuel and air.
The more rapid mixing of fuel and air achieved in IDI engines comes at a price, however. The high velocity flow of air through the narrow passage connecting the main cylinder to the prechamber, as well as the vigorous swirling motion in the prechamber itself, causes the air to lose significantly more heat during compression than it does in a DI engine. Coupled with a pressure drop from the main chamber to the prechamber, this results in an air temperature in the prechamber after compression that is lower than that in a similar DI engine. Since rapid fuel autoignition requires a certain air temperature, an IDI engine needs a higher compression ratio to achieve the desired air temperature in the prechamber. IDI engines operate at compression ratios of about 20:1 to 24:1; while DI engines operate at ratios of about 15:1 to 18:1. The heat losses that necessitate these higher compression ratios have another, more important effect: they decrease the efficiency of the engine. IDI engines typically achieve fuel efficiencies that are 10% to 20% lower, on a relative basis, than comparable DI engines.
Even with the higher compression ratios, IDI engines may still be hard to start. Most IDI engines use glow plugs to heat the air in the prechamber in order to make starting easier. Glow plugs, which are small resistive heaters, are usually powered for only the first few minutes of engine operation.
With the negative attributes of harder starting and lower efficiency, one may wonder why IDI diesel engines are used at all. The answer is engine speed. As an engine gets smaller, generally it must operate at higher speeds to generate the desired power. As engine speed increases, there is less time per engine cycle to inject, vaporize, mix, and combust the fuel. As a result, the higher mixing rates afforded by IDI designs become necessary to achieve good combustion at higher engine speeds. IDI diesels most commonly are used in smaller automotive and light duty truck applications.
Diesel engines type an description..
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_6_1_rf.htm
DIRECT-INJECTION AND INDIRECT-INJECTION
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_6_3_rf.htm#SUB5
dealer the 790 has a electric heating coil attached to the manifold. Below
freezing you turn the key to heat for 15 to 20 seconds then start it.. Before I
had the tool shed, I'd sometime forget to use the heater and have started the
engine in the low 20s but it smoked and the exhausted stank more then usual
till it warmed up...
Below you'll find a brief explanation of Direct and Indirect injection engines...
Richard
West Michigan.
DIRECT-INJECTION AND INDIRECT-INJECTION
The two fuel injection processes used in diesel engines, direct-injection (DI) and indirect-injection (IDI), are illustrated in Figures 6-2 and 6-3 (see below). In a DI engine, fuel is injected directly into the cylinder above the piston. In an IDI engine, fuel is injected into a small prechamber connected to the cylinder via a narrow passage that enters the prechamber tangentially. During the compression process, air is forced through this passage, generating a vigorous swirling motion in the prechamber. Then fuel is injected into the prechamber and ignition occurs there. The combination of rapidly swirling air in the prechamber and the jet-like expansion of combustion gases from the prechamber into the cylinder enhances the mixing and combustion of the fuel and air.
The more rapid mixing of fuel and air achieved in IDI engines comes at a price, however. The high velocity flow of air through the narrow passage connecting the main cylinder to the prechamber, as well as the vigorous swirling motion in the prechamber itself, causes the air to lose significantly more heat during compression than it does in a DI engine. Coupled with a pressure drop from the main chamber to the prechamber, this results in an air temperature in the prechamber after compression that is lower than that in a similar DI engine. Since rapid fuel autoignition requires a certain air temperature, an IDI engine needs a higher compression ratio to achieve the desired air temperature in the prechamber. IDI engines operate at compression ratios of about 20:1 to 24:1; while DI engines operate at ratios of about 15:1 to 18:1. The heat losses that necessitate these higher compression ratios have another, more important effect: they decrease the efficiency of the engine. IDI engines typically achieve fuel efficiencies that are 10% to 20% lower, on a relative basis, than comparable DI engines.
Even with the higher compression ratios, IDI engines may still be hard to start. Most IDI engines use glow plugs to heat the air in the prechamber in order to make starting easier. Glow plugs, which are small resistive heaters, are usually powered for only the first few minutes of engine operation.
With the negative attributes of harder starting and lower efficiency, one may wonder why IDI diesel engines are used at all. The answer is engine speed. As an engine gets smaller, generally it must operate at higher speeds to generate the desired power. As engine speed increases, there is less time per engine cycle to inject, vaporize, mix, and combust the fuel. As a result, the higher mixing rates afforded by IDI designs become necessary to achieve good combustion at higher engine speeds. IDI diesels most commonly are used in smaller automotive and light duty truck applications.
Diesel engines type an description..
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_6_1_rf.htm
DIRECT-INJECTION AND INDIRECT-INJECTION
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_6_3_rf.htm#SUB5
