Glucosamine for dog's aging joints?

[cowboydoc]

Re: Glucosamine for dog\'s aging joints?

Glucosamine is a form of GAG's, glucose amino glycans. These are the building blocks for the cartilage in the body. As the cartilage detiorates in the body from injury or from old age osteoarthritis sets in. Osteoarthritis is remodeling of the bone due to stress, injury, hypermobility and old age. As the joint cartilage detiorates the joint becomes unstable. The body wants to stablize this joint and will do so by starting to fuse the joint. This gradual fusing process is osteoarthritis. Glucosamine and chondroitan do nothing to help osteoarthritis directly. What glucosamine and chondroitan do is help to rebuild the cartilage. As the cartilage becomes more stable the osteoarthritic process slows down.

Glucosamine/chondroitan therefore has nothing to do with calcium or magnesium or phosphorus, building blocks of bone. They are two completely separte processes. In the absence of osteoporosis you can actually speed up the degenerative process by taking too much calcium/mag./phos.

Gluc./chondroitan due however HAVE to be taken in SPECIFIC doses to be effective. That dose is going to depend on the weight of your dog. Also the purity varies greatly from 30% bioavailable to 100% bioavailable. This means how much of the dosage the body can actually absorb and use. The best over the counter glucosamine has only been shown to be about 30% effective. You need to get the clinical results from the company and make sure that whatever you are using is tested by independent labs to assure that it is pure glucosamine. Everything from sawdust to sand has been found in supplements. It is also a very slow process. It takes a couple months for it to start to take effect and yes you do need to keep supplementing it to keep up with the joint degeneration. It also usually takes a much higher dose to begin with and then switch to a maintenance dose.

The reason a dog may have an adverse reaction is from getting way too much. The dose for a 150 lb. person is 1500 mg. Giving 1500 mg to a dog would be too much. In too high of doses it can cause diarrhea, stomach aches, digestion problems, etc. I can't tell you the exact dose for a dog. Your vet should be able to tell you that. All of the studies have shown that there is a specific amount that you have to have absorbed into the body to be effective. Below this level and it does no good at all. Higher doses also do not represent greater efficacy either. In the absence of vet recommendations I would highly suggest not giving it to your dog. If it is truely a joint problem that is related to the cartilage it will be beneficial. If it isn't you are wasting your money.

Once the problem is there it's much more difficult to get it under control. If you have an animal that is at high risk for joint degeneration it is wise to put them on gluc/chondroitan supplements to prevent degeneration. All of our dogs and performance horses are on it.

If you already have an animal that is in the degenerative process and has joint damage you will get better results by giving the gluc./chondr. with a supplement that contains MSM, Yucca, and/or willow bark. These supplements have been shown to reduce joint inflammation associated with osteoarthritis. It is the constant inflammation in the joint that also leads to increased degeneration within the joint.

 

[hazmat]

Re: Glucosamine for dog\'s aging joints?

Thanks everybody for the info.

Doc - is there a specific brand supplement that has all the goodies you recommended?

The dog is still pretty spry (see attached pic taken this summer). When he was in for a checkup the vet had him walk in circles - you could see he was favoring one leg as he turned. She also pulled back on his legs and he appeared to be tender (either he's a wimp (which he is) or his hips are bothering him).

 

[Steve_Miller]

Re: Glucosamine for dog\'s aging joints?

My oldest dog was prescribed with arthritic hip problems and we give her meloxicam (I think thats how its spelled). I'm at work today (holiday here in Canada) so i'm not sure of the dosage she gets, but it has made all the difference in the world to her. We tried glucosimine for a while but it didn't seem to help her.

Steve

 

[gsxr1100]

Re: Glucosamine for dog\'s aging joints?

This is what (stated below, Osteo Bi-Flex Triple Strength Glucosamine Chondroitin) we give out 82 lb rottie who had Hip Dysplasia. We tried the dog products and they did not work. This did and quick. We give 5 pills per day as the wife stated when I called her. Our vet (family member) said this is the way to go.

We give our boys 2 per day. One is 88 lbs and the other 81. Our old rottie (140 lbs) had duel Hip Dyslasia and we gave around 6 pills per day for 4 years. She was running around like a puppy on it.

So I would have to say he was not giving to much Glucosamine. You can also give Vitamin E and marine oil for inflammation also.

The rule to start with is around 500mg per 25lbs of dog to start and see how that works and increase or decrease as necessary.

Also if your dog has gas you can give a Pepcid AC and be fine . I know that glucoflex and Missing link sucked. We tried it for 3 months and noticed ZERO.

Oh, if you do is limping go to the VET ASAP. It might be as simple as an ACL issue.

All this is from my Vet or what the wife pick up working for NERR (North East Rottie Rescue or Faces- Pit bull Rescue.

PS. The next food will be Flint River for our “kids”.

 

[jpr62902]

Re: Glucosamine for dog\'s aging joints?

Good lord, Steve! That 1st pic looks like you're driving your tractor over poor Wilson. If that's the case, stop that right away, and you'll probably notice a remarkable improvement.

All kidding aside, we started calling our 12 year old ridgeback Snap, Crackle, Pop since she sounded like that any time she walked anywhere. We started her on Glucosamine\chondroitan supplements and it made a big difference (in the noise anyway). That said, Richard seems to have hit the nail on the head once again (you'd think he were an orthopaedic surgeon or something /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif). Always consult your Vet 1st re: side effects, dosage, etc.

Oh yeah -- Cool Dog!

 

[beenthere]

Re: Glucosamine for dog\'s aging joints?

My son started giving his chocolate lab glucosamine on his vets recommendation. Appears to be working good and the dog is very active still.

I decided to give it a try, as some of my joints were giving me indication that they didn't want to move when I wanted them to, after a length of time sitting in a chair, for example.
I bought some, and tried it. Not at the recommendation suggested, but a daily dose two or three times a week. I was amazed at the subtle difference, but nevertheless, a definite difference. Now I don't (or haven't) taken any for several weeks, and then it was only if I remembered to take a pill. I have none of the subtle reminders in my joints now. I probably, over the course of a year, haven't taken more than a total of 50 pills.
Maybe it wasn't the cause of the relief, but can't think of anything else. (The first time I took it, I had some nausea which I thought was related, but it didn't continue when taking it after that first time).
I don't recommend taking it (I only tell about my taking it), but I will take it again if joint pain comes back.

 

[JJT]

Re: Glucosamine for dog\'s aging joints?

We have an 8 year old Newfy on this and she's a new dog. She's been on it for 2 years. Our vet even has his father on the stuff. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[BigDave]

Re: Glucosamine for dog\'s aging joints?

I had my last dog on it for a couple of years. It definitely eased her joint pain, and she was a much livelier dog during use. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be working on my mother as effectively.

 

[Hank]

Re: Glucosamine for dog\'s aging joints?

We have an adopted racing Greyhound that has joint problems in her front left shoulder. Our vet says that joint and the right rear are the most common problem areas in retired Greyhounds, as they are the pivot points when they race.

We have been having good luck with Glyco-Flex III, which we obtain from KV Vet Supply . It contains 1,000 mg each of Glucosamine HCL and MSM, as well as the Chondroitin and some other things. Jaqi gets half a tablet per day (65 lb dog) as a maintenance dose. It is made for dogs, a chewable tablet with a nice smoke flavoring, so she eats it right up without any of the tricks otherwise needed to give a dog a pill.

 

[Vetgirl0618]

Re: Glucosamine for dog\'s aging joints?

Glucosamine chondritin is a wonderful product to use for mild arthritis. It works because it is a chondroprotector meaning that it delays or prevents the further breakdown of cartilage in the affected joints. It also helps provide cushioning in the form of fluid in the joint which can relieve discomfort. If the arthrits is more advanced then glucosamine while helpful will not be enough. Rimadyl has been shown to cause liver and kidney damage in some patients when used long term. The vet I work in has switched to a product called Deramaxx which is also an antiinflammatory. Deramaxx has no ill affect on the system and has worked wonders for many of our patients....owners say theyre like new dogs! We tell clients to use deramaxx and glucosamine chondritin together and get good results. When looking for glucoasamine products at the pharmacy the Milligram dosage to look for is 250mg of glucosamine, 200mg Chondritin for a regular strength dosage; for extra strength look for 500mg glucosamine, 400mg chondritin. There are name brand glucosamine chondritin options approved for use in animlas however i have been told that human stuff is ok too. (and cheaper) The stuff at the vet is called Cosequin and it comes in regular and double strength. There is another product considered to be "generic" called arthritis relief that i use for my 11 year old. He does really well on it. Asprin is also helpful for discomfort as long as it is buffered or baby variety and you follow your veterinarians dosing recommendations. I hope that some of this has been helpful....any other questions I will be sure to try and help. Good luck!