GM 4.5L Diesel May Still Be Alive

[Diamondpilot]

I agree 100% on the gas engine choices and the Hemi comment. The attempts at V-10s always baffled me. If we wanted cubes, there are proven V-8s up to 600 ci. If we wanted to gloat over cylinder count, there are many proven V-12s around. Marketing I guess.

Yes, but that V-10 is a work horse and at only $600 over the 5.4L it was a bargin. My uncle has had 2 of them. His F-250 was a plow truck and he traded it at 150,000 miles. It plowed snow all winter and pulled his 14,000# boat in the summer. His current 05 F-350 is a plow truck also but only for his businesses, not commercially and only has 35,000 miles on it but he has pulled his 25,000# boat with it 30 miles at a time. Yes it only averages 10mpg with its 4.30 gears and 4 pulling the boat but its strong.

Chris

 

[RobertN]

My understanding is the bore/stroke ratio on the old big blocks made it harder to get a good clean controlled burn; hard time making emission, and as anyone who drove a bigblock, fuel mileage. That was why Dodge went to the V10 instead of resurecting a 440. The next step was an all new motor; for better or worse the "new" Hemi.

I have friends with a pretty heavy 14,000lb-ish 5th wheel; the old Dodge V10 hauls it well.

That might be true, but my point was that it seems like a waste of R&D when they could have used an older V-8 or V-12. Ditto with the Mopar V-10. Along those same lines was the various attempts at 90 degree V-6s rather than 60 degree designs.

 

[lostcause]

i think if there's any hope in them keeping the price from getting unrealistic, they should make sure the engine works with an existing transmission. granted, a lot of the benefits of the 6.6 come from the allison transmission, but it's also pretty expensive to toss into the equation. that will take a couple grand off the price.

i think that putting a diesel into a 1/2 ton should be for long term durability and consistent torque for towing small to medium sized loads, NOT for increasing the towing capacity of a 1/2 ton. my normal load is 6000-8000lbs, and i have towed it with a couple of 1/2 tons and a couple of 3/4 tons. sure, it's ok behind a 1/2 ton, but it is much easier behind the 3/4 ton. heavier suspension and larger brakes make weight transfer less noticeable in the 3/4 ton. i don't think i'd tow any 10k load behind a 1/2 ton, unless it was a one time deal. i certainly wouldn't buy one if i intended to tow like that on a regular basis.

another thing is that from my experience, at least 99% of the people towing borderline loads with 1/2 tons are not using weight distributing hitches. telling them they have even more capacity is really almost a half-truth, since very few own the correct hitch, or even know what it is.

 

[swines]

Today the diesel is pushing $10,000 as a option on 2011 trucks.

No it is not. In my 2007 F350 (delivered in August 2006) the diesel was a $6500 add. In the new 2011 F350 it was a $7835 add. In both cases, that includes additional suspension and some other items associated with the diesel package.


The reason Ford is not actively pursuing putting a diesel in the F150 is that in the 2011 F150 there will be a new turbo charged 3.5 liter EcoBoost V6 available with about 350Hp and 350 ft/lbs of torque - at relatively low RPM with better mileage than a diesel. They are also contemplating putting a truck version of the new 302 V8 with over 400 HP and over 400 ft/lbs of torque.

 

[FlaDon]

My understanding is the bore/stroke ratio on the old big blocks made it harder to get a good clean controlled burn; hard time making emission, and as anyone who drove a bigblock, fuel mileage. That was why Dodge went to the V10 instead of resurecting a 440. The next step was an all new motor; for better or worse the "new" Hemi.

I have friends with a pretty heavy 14,000lb-ish 5th wheel; the old Dodge V10 hauls it well.

Dodge's V-10 did no better in towing than the Chevy 8.1 V-8 for MPG and for 10K bumper pull trailer loads got out run by both the Chevy and Ford engines.

 

[FlaDon]

No it is not. In my 2007 F350 (delivered in August 2006) the diesel was a $6500 add. In the new 2011 F350 it was a $7835 add. In both cases, that includes additional suspension and some other items associated with the diesel package.


The reason Ford is not actively pursuing putting a diesel in the F150 is that in the 2011 F150 there will be a new turbo charged 3.5 liter EcoBoost V6 available with about 350Hp and 350 ft/lbs of torque - at relatively low RPM with better mileage than a diesel. They are also contemplating putting a truck version of the new 302 V8 with over 400 HP and over 400 ft/lbs of torque.

And that will be fine for most people as they will never push the vehicle to operate in those ranges for many hours. But the fact is, those engines produce that power in what is an Intermittent rating.* Not a Continuous rating. An example of that would be a Cummins 8.3 with an intermittent rating of 195 HP but a continuous rating down near 125 HP.

Now start towing heavy loads behind the tiny V-8 or V-6 and they won't last at those ratings. The Diesels will as that is what they are designed for. Continuous ratings are normally about 5/6 of the intermittent rating. I.E 49 HP I = 42 HP C. 600 HP I = 500 HP C



*From Cummins' 3.9L 150 HP engine page:

Intermittent Rating: This power rating is intended for Intermittent use in variable load application where full power is limited to two (2) hours out of every eight (8) hours of operation. Also, reduced power operation must be at or below 200 RPM of the maximum rated RPM. This rating is an ISO 3046 fuel
stop power rating and is for applications that operate less than 1500 hours per year.

.

Iveco chart

 

[swines]

Now start towing heavy loads behind the tiny V-8 or V-6 and they won't last at those ratings. The Diesels will as that is what they are designed for. Continuous ratings are normally about 5/6 of the intermittent rating. I.E 49 HP I = 42 HP C. 600 HP I = 500 HP C

I truly like posts like this that bring up "factoids" only to be contentious. You shouldn't be pulling "heavy loads" behind a truck like an F150 - that's not what it's made to do. If you want to pull heavy loads get an F450, F550 or better yet - go buy a Class 8 tractor. Please, while you're playing knowledge on parade, how about putting it into some context that relates to the real use of a 1/2-ton pickup - which is NOT for pulling heavy loads.

 

[Builder]

I don't beleive jack-squat about what a brochure or a magazine article says. I wait until testing on the real streets gets me some real-life feedback. Then I'm a believer. I find fuel economy claims made on the internet even more of a hoax than HP claims.

 

[FlaDon]

I truly like posts like this that bring up "factoids" only to be contentious. You shouldn't be pulling "heavy loads" behind a truck like an F150 - that's not what it's made to do. If you want to pull heavy loads get an F450, F550 or better yet - go buy a Class 8 tractor. Please, while you're playing knowledge on parade, how about putting it into some context that relates to the real use of a 1/2-ton pickup - which is NOT for pulling heavy loads.

Then there's no need for that engine's HP. Because the truck won't haul anything in it needing near that power. At least Chevy 454 SS trucks could tow 10K.

As for Ford's V-10s, better buy your pickup while you can as they are being dropped except in cab and chassis models.

 

[Builder]

I truly like posts like this that bring up "factoids" only to be contentious. You shouldn't be pulling "heavy loads" behind a truck like an F150 - that's not what it's made to do. If you want to pull heavy loads get an F450, F550 or better yet - go buy a Class 8 tractor. Please, while you're playing knowledge on parade, how about putting it into some context that relates to the real use of a 1/2-ton pickup - which is NOT for pulling heavy loads.

I agree. 1/2 tons are not suitable for towing much over 8-10K. I just rode shotgun in a new F-150 with 10K behind it about 3 weeks ago and we got shoved all over the road. I never felt safe or secure. Truck was too light for the trailer weight. Even the trucks' owner, a blind Ford loyalist, admitted we should have taken my 1-ton diesel truck.