Good Buy on eBay

[Junkman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> You just have to allow a little time to set up your account before you want to buy something. Just like most things in life, preparation is important. </font>

To Repeat my previous example:

I felt this was not much different than if I walked into my local hardware store and made a purchase for an item needed this weekend; since I had help coming to assist with the task at hand.

Ok here's my CC-- sorry we'll have to wait until next Wednesday and check with your bank and bill you $1.95 on you card and then when you get your statement come back and tell us what our secret number is and you can pick up your merchandise.


Now this hypothetical merchant has overhead just like the on line seller, maybe I had to get the stock clerk to pull the item from the top rack with the lift truck......
you know go to some effort and expense to get the item in my cart.

Then arrive at checkout and have the above happen. Would any of you follow those instructions for a $49.95 purchase?

Bye Bye Now, You all come back U hear.
)</font>


There is a big differance....... at the hardware store, they can ask you for additional information such as a telephone number and look in the local directory to see if you live at the address that the telephone number is recorded. They can also ask to see another form of identification such as a drivers license. They can compare your signature on the back of the card with the signature on the sales slip..... While on this though, if you don't sign your credit car, you are responsible for ALL charges on it if they are fraudulent. Many people are of the belief that if they don't sign the card, that a thief can't copy their signature. If a credit card is presented at my store and the back isn't signed, we don't accept it until the card is signed and we can verify the signature with the signature on the drivers license. This policy has been in effect for many years and we have been backed up by the credit card companies whenever someone complains to them. You don't have to accept a credit card unless the credit card owner complies with all the rules of the credit card issuer. Signing the card is one of them. Remember, that a credit card is like a check....... it is not payment until the money is in the sellers hands.... it is a promise to pay. Also, as of the first of the year, all credit card printers must have software that will not print the entire credit card number, but only the last four digits. Paying for a purchase with a credit card or a check is a privilege, not a right. If I choose not to accept a form of payment other than cash, that is my right under the law. The only thing that a merchant in a public setting can't refuse is cash..... green backs...... the ones that are printed by the U.S. Government... I don't have to accept an unreasonable amount of cash either. That means that if you try to pay me with all coin for a purchase, I don't have to accept it...... if you pay me with cash, and the amount is over $10,000 I have an obligation to notify the Internal Revenue Service through a filing form at the bank when I deposit the money..... the bank also has the same obligation to do the same when I deposit over $10,000 unless that is a normal amount that has been previously approved by the IRS...

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color="blue"> if you pay me with cash, and the amount is over $10,000 I have an obligation to notify the Internal Revenue Service through a filing form at the bank when I deposit the money..... the bank also has the same obligation to do the same when I deposit over $10,000 unless that is a normal amount that has been previously approved by the IRS...
</font>

First, let me say that in the example you gave you have the same obligation to file the same form whether or not you ever deposit any or all of that $10,000 you received in a single transaction. That extends to whether or not you got it in one lump sum, too. Getting $5,000 down and $5,000 on delivery triggers the same requirements.

The second thing I just found out just yesterday. While that requirement is still in effect there are even more intrusive rules in effect now.

I had gone to my bank Thursday and withdrawn $5,000 cash for a purchase. After I had done that I found that the seller's plans had changed and he wouldn't be coming here so I could just forward guaranteed funds to him. I went to the same bank branch with the same pile of bills to convert them to something I could mail.

I was asked for my driver's license! I told the girl I was the one with the cash and if anyone ought to be asking for ID it was me. She tried to tell me it was "for security purposes." I asked her whose security? Certainly not mine!

As it turns out there is now a rule setting a $3000 limit for banks to report cash exchange transactions. Apparently that is part of "The Patriot Act" which was ramrodded through Congress in the wake of 9-11. The purported reason is to track cash for certified funds/money orders/etc., in an effort to track money to pay for terrorist acts. What a crock! Nowadays I probably couldn't even get someone's house TP'ed for $3,000, much less something more nefarious.

I would wager that information such as this is available to the IRS for the asking, however.

 

[Libertine]

Gary_in_Indiana:

<font color="blue">The purported reason is to track cash for certified funds/money orders/etc., in an effort to track money to pay for terrorist acts. </font>

Oh, yeah. The REAL reason is that we use a system called "monetized debt", i.e. money (green stuff or electronic account balances) IS debt. In other words, every dollar you get came into being because someone borrowed something from the banking system and your "dollar" is someone else's debt. Reflect on that. This monetary system WILL collapse, period. They (the government, FED, etc.) know this and want to get maximum control before it happens. 9-11 (and the "war" on drugs - that one has been going on officially for 30 years now) are excuses to increase control to avoid the coming effects that they caused in the first place. You have no idea of what's coming.

Meantime, enjoy your tractor, keep your head down and don't make waves. Me, I'm hoping it will hold till I die - the ones I feel sorry for are people with kids and grandkids they care about. It's nice living in an insane asylum populated by sheep - well, maybe not nice, but, at least it's interesting.

JEH

 

[DocHeb]

You must have been really "burned" in the past - you sound pretty angry towards your customers.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ... we don't accept it until the card is signed and we can verify the signature with the signature on the drivers license. )</font>
I congratulate you for checking signatures. If more merchants did that I'm sure the amount of credit card fraud would decrease significantly. The back of my cards are signed with "Check Driver's License", and the only place that routinely checks my ID is Home Depot - the vast majority of merchants swipe the card and don't even look at the back.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ... don't have to accept a credit card unless the credit card owner complies with all the rules of the credit card issuer. )</font>
You're right, and in ten years of not signing my card (except to write in "Check Driver's License"), I've only had one seller refuse to take my card - that was last Christmas at Best Buy. Of course, I left the $700 of merchandise at the counter and went to Circuit City, where they accepted my card (without even looking at the back of the card - like 99% of all merchants).

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If I choose not to accept a form of payment other than cash, that is my right under the law. )</font> It's also my right to refuse to purchase something from you if I don't like your requirements.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't have to accept an unreasonable amount of cash either. ...if you pay me with cash, and the amount is over $10,000 I have an obligation to notify the Internal Revenue Service through a filing form at the bank when I deposit the money..... )</font> Something to hide?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( if you don't sign your credit car, you are responsible for ALL charges on it if they are fraudulent. )</font> What is the card company going to do - ask the thief for the card to prove I didn't sign it?

If more than 1% of merchants asked for ID or actually checked the signature against the Driver's License, I think I'd feel a bit better about signing the back of the card. Now when the clerk asks for my Driver's License at HD - I thank them for checking to help prevent fraud.

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I congratulate you for checking signatures. If more merchants did that I'm sure the amount of credit card fraud would decrease significantly. )</font>

In theory anyway, but in reality . . ., well, I'll play devil's advocate. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif How many store clerks are handwriting experts? I sign my cards, sitting at my desk at home. That signature looks nothing like the quick one I sign standing at a store counter.

And yes, our Home Depot has recently starting asking for drivers license along with the credit card. And if they want to do that with everyone; no problem as far as I'm concerned, but since I stick that card in the gas pumps when I buy gas and no human sees either it or any other ID, and since I buy things via the Internet and/or telephone and no one sees the card or other ID, and no signature at all is used in those cases, how much good does it really do?

Now I've done something my wife thinks I shouldn't have done recently, and she's probably right. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif There are 3 Wal-Marts in this area that we've used quite a bit. Two of them have never asked to look at the card or to see other ID (you swipe the card through the little machine yourself at all of them). But there's one that occasionally (maybe every 3rd or 4th time I've been in there) asks for the card and drivers license. Of course, I've been in other Wal-Marts all over the country as well and none of them ever asked for other ID or to see the card. So I called Wal-Mart's headquarters to ask why this one Wal-Mart asks occasionally for ID. I was told they would check into it and let me know. A couple of days later, "Jim" called and told me he was the store manager at that store. He first said that all Wal-Mart stores always ask for drivers license and check the signature on the credit card (an obvious lie, but I just told him that wasn't true because no other store had asked me for ID and his store only did it occasionally), so he changed his story and said the computer "randomly" selects customers to ask; maybe 20% of the customers. And of course, he said to ask for him anytime I had a problem in the store.

A couple of days later "Mike" called from that store and said he was the store manager. He had seen the message from their headquarters and obviously had no idea that "Jim" had already called. So "Mike" told me that all clerks in all Wal-Mart stores always ask for drivers license and to see the signature on the credit card. When I told him that just was not true, he said it was supposed to be, but sometimes employees don't do everything they're supposed to do. So I asked him why they would put the machine out there for the customers to swipe the cards themselves if the clerk was then going to ask for the card and drivers license. He didn't have an answer; didn't know.

The next 2 or 3 times I was in that store, I was not asked for any ID, but then one day the clerk asked for the card and drivers license. I told her to call her manager; that I wanted to know why they asked sometimes and not others. Instead, she just handed me the receipt to sign; didn't call a manager or ask anymore for the cards. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif So I took my merchandise and left without showing her anything.

The same thing happened again; 2 or 3 times without them asking, and then one day the clerk asked for the card and drivers license (she had not asked the person she checked out just ahead of me). I told her to call her manager. She turned and called another young lady who was standing nearby (obviously not "Mike" or "Jim") who walked over and told me they had to check to make sure the card wasn't stolen. So I just turned and walked out leaving the merchandise and haven't been back to that particular store.

Now I don't care what a store's policies are if they're followed consistently, although I do think they should be able to articulate what the policy is and why they have that policy. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Incidentally, I bought a $16 item at Circuit City yesterday and that was the first time I've had a Circuit City ask to see my drivers license. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Junkman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You must have been really "burned" in the past - you sound pretty angry towards your customers. )</font>

We are not angry at our customers and our customers appreciate what we do for them all the time. We follow the rules of acceptance as set forth in the agreement that we singed with the credit card association. To do any thing other than that leaves us open to a charge back. You on the other hand apparently feel that your rule not to sign the credit card is the way that you want to use your card. This acceptance policy is enforced when there is a fraud complaint and we have to produce the signed document. If there is any irregularity in the document, they will deduct the amount from our checking account. I would rather loose a $700 sale and retain the merchandise than to loose the $700 and the merchandise. Personally, customers like yourself that don't want to follow the rules of the credit card issuer...... rules that you agreed to when you applied for your card..... I would be happy if you went somewhere else to shop. My experience has been that people that don't like the rules that they agree to and make up their own rules are also the ones that are the biggest problem customers when the item that they purchase doesn't meet their level of acceptance even though it functions the way it was manufactured. As an example .... the person that returns the 40 pound bag of dog food with barely 10 pounds left and says "my dog won't eat it any longer" and wants a refund, because the bag says "Money Back Guarantee if your dog doesn't like it". He liked it for the first 30 pounds and the customer is just looking to feed his dog for free that month. We have to absorb the loss of that 40 pound bag, not the manufacturer. They give us a 2% credit to make up for those instances. That is 50 cents on a bag......
How do you like it when your patients don't pay their bill or figure a way out of it???? Unfortunately, you can't ask a emergency physician how much treatment is going to cost in advance because of the situation. You only have the choice to pay the bill or get sued. Doctors and lawyers...... they are generally the two worse groups of people to do business with ........ almost any retail merchant will tell you that...... it isn't just my opinion....... !!!

 

[Junkman]

A couple of things are in play in your examples. Some stores do a random check as a store policy. The biggest difference between a gas pump, Walmart, and some of the other big chains is that they are operating under different rules than the local independent store. That is why they can use swipe machines and never look at the card. Every Walmart is different and the way the store operates in many instances is up to the store manager. All Walmart stores don't have the same prices or products..... they also have in store sale merchandise that isn't on sale at the next closest Walmart. The local supermarket chain that I shop at has a swipe machine and you don't have to even sign the slip if the purchase is under $25.. Sometimes a flag goes up at the cashiers register and she will ask you to sign the sales draft even if it is under $25 and check your signature against the card. True, that you don't sign the card and the slip the same way every time, but an attentive clerk can usually see that the signatures are similar. If they differ enough, they will ask for a drivers license. If a stolen or fraudulent card is recovered ... and a lot of stolen, lost, & fraudulent credit cards are recovered and returned to the issuing bank and it isn't signed, then is when it gets very difficult for the merchants. We get $50 bounty for every card that we recover and that money goes directly to the clerk that recovers the card. The clerk will inform the customer that the bank has requested that we not return the card to them. If the customer makes an issue of it, we immediately call the police and tell the dispatcher what the problem is. Almost every time, as soon as the customer knows that the police are on the way, they will leave the store. We only advise them of the police being on the way if they start to make a fuss. Response time in our town is very good and they don't mind coming to our aid.....

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> Now I've done something my wife thinks I shouldn't have done recently </font>

Bird,

I'm with you 110%

Sometimes you just gotta do what you just gotta do!

• /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
  
  Been there, done that [not exactly the same thing, but similar...] a time or two myself...

 

[Mark_in_NH]

OK !! Out of curiosity. Did anybody buy the lights ?

 

[Inspector507]

They sold for $76