Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce

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   / Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#21  
Re: What a long, strange trip it\'s been...

MarkV,

I had some concerns about the vertical stabilizers as well. As with anything, there are tradeoffs and compromises involved - you get a little, you give a little. The most important tradeoff here, to me, basically is: if you want to work tight up against the side of a building, you have to have a vertical stabilizer. Anything else involves slowing down a bit, or being a bit more careful, as opposed to simply "can't be done". So the verticals come out ahead on that basis. As for the stability issue, consider this: What do those huge truck cranes use? Almost all of them use vertical stabilizers. So, it's a matter of knowing how to use what you have to get to do all the jobs you have on your plate. Or, put another way: I'm sure there's less stability there, but I can live with it, in order to be able to do everything I need to do.

The tires are a bit of a concern, too. Here's my take, so far (subject to correction by actual usage, of course /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif): There's a huge net loss when comparing the rear tires of my Kubota L4310HST to the ones on the EarthForce EF-5. There's a less huge net gain when comparing the front tires of the two machines. BUT, the front tires are more important in the typical usage I put a machine to, because of the loader and bucket contents weight. So that evens things out a bit, or maybe even swings the balance a bit in favor of the EF-5's tires. There are Michelin XM27's available that will fit the EF-5's stock wheels and add about an inch to the width. If actual usage of the EF-5 indicates that the tires are a big liability, I'll have some 20" wheels made and go to 2"-3" wider tires. Been there, done that. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

MarkC
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   / Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #22  
Re: What a long, strange trip it\'s been...

Mark,

<font color=blue>If actual usage of the EF-5 indicates that the tires are a big liability, I'll have some 20" wheels made and go to 2"-3" wider tires. Been there, done that. </font color=blue>

Shoot Mark, this thing will look like a monster truck before you are done./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I also see you adding a way to extend the stabilizers out (like the concrete pump rigs) when you don't need to be next to the wall.

Oh heck, Earth Force might as well add you to their R&D department now. They have no idea what they are in for./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Thanks for the insight.

MarkV
 
   / Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#23  
Re: What a long, strange trip it\'s been...

Rat - I don't dispute the points you make at all - just the weighting of them, I guess. I agree that transferring power by mechanical means is the most efficient, I'm just becoming less and less convinced of it's practicality as time goes by.

Carraro is a manufacturer of axles, gearboxes, and planetary drives based in Italy. They have a web site, http://www.carraro.com, which for some reason doesn't work for me.

Rexroth is a German-based manufacturer of just about anything and everything in the way of hydraulics that you can think of. Their web site, http://www.boschrexroth-us.com, is pretty informative. They also have a large US presence.

I thought about the EF-6 - it would be nice to have all that power - but it's too heavy to transport comfortably, doesn't have HST and, besides, more isn't always necessary better. I can't believe I just said that... /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Anyway, keep in mind that the EF-5 has way more power than an L48. Changes your perspective a bit, doesn't it?

MarkC
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   / Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #24  
Re: What a long, strange trip it\'s been...

Mark, I have to admit I have been anxiously waiting for your response, that is most unusual for me on this forum. I think it shows just how much I value your opinion. I did not realize the EF6 was not HST, now I need the EF5. The loader specs are truly remarkable. I will also tell you that I am at least 1/4 Czech so I should be proud that they have something well made over there. Thanks for the update regarding the Italian and German contibutors to this product, I know that a lot of thought went into building it. I received an eMail from my local distributor of EarthForce. I will give him a call to talk about costs. I still need a 3 pt. hitch so I think EarthForce will be out of the question, but I like to go into something like this armed with some knowledge and conclusions that I made the right choice. You have been a wealth of knowledge and I certainly hope that you get the "dream" machine you deserve. More then any member on this board I have enjoyed your comments and suggestions then anyone. Now my thoughts are, keep the International 454D with "lightening shift" for mowing and use the EF5 for moving DIRT! Did you tell me if its available without the hoe? As much as I would love to learn how to use one correctly, at this point, my needs for one are still pretty limited. If I end up with a L4610 or L 48TL, I'll still converse with you even if you are up a notch or two on the tractor scale, Best Wishes, Rat...
 
   / Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #25  
Re: What a long, strange trip it\'s been...

Wow- you change your mind like I change my underwear/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif...Just kidding I know from most of your post that I've read that you read up and find out tons of info on most things and then make you decisions. I am wondering though if you mentioned what was asked earlier about the cost of these machines.

Darin

p.s.- I've been here awhile and probably didn't read posts that included info on what type of work that you perform so if you could lead me in that direction I woudl appreciate it. Or if you didn't post such topics what do you do with these beasts? Thanks in advance
 
   / Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#26  
Re: What a long, strange trip it\'s been...

Rat - Thanks! EarthForce machines are available without the backhoe, but you'd need one heck of a counterweight to make it useful. You can buy a counterweight from EarthForce as a custom order item. No big deal, really - mine is being custom-made, in fact. It takes 6-8 weeks to get one, that's all.

Here's a bit of information that you may find interesting: When I posted my original query about EarthForce machines last December, it was because I'd seen a rental unit in Greensboro, NC and the brochure I got then said a 3-point hitch is available. When I found out that no mechanical PTO was offered, I forgot about it, which is basically where you're at now. (I'm not claiming to be "further evolved" than you are in the tractor purchasing food chain, just telling you the progression of events as they happened for me.) Then, I saw the Power Trac, and I loved it. As you know, my initial reaction was to wonder how their 3-point hitch could be so stupidly designed. They seemed to think it wasn't a big deal, and actually said nobody have ever complained about it. That told me that not many people actually used it. Then I wondered why. Then my engineer friend told me why: that kind of machine doesn't really work well with a 3-point hitch. But he didn't say that should nix the deal, just that I should reconsider my having to have one. That line of thinking naturally progressed to my looking at TLB's, which reminded me of the EarthForce I'd seen last year. The rest you know.

The one area I can think of that I may still really miss the 3-point hitch is in road grading. I like to haul gravel from a stock pile in the bucket (which will now require a lot fewer trips, using the big 1.75 yd bucket!), then spread it with the blade on the back. With the EF-5, I'll have to do those things in separate steps, but I have a feeling I'll really like not having to look over my shoulder all the time while I'm grading, which should also greatly increase the speed I can work at. So, as I said before, it's all about compromises. As long as it seems like I'm gaining something as important, or more so, than what I'm giving up, I'm weighing it all very carefully and trying to keep an open mind. Will there be things I miss about the Kubota after I've used the EF-5 a while? I'm absolutely certain of it. Will I be happier overall with the EF-5? I'm just as certain of that. My Kubota just had too many limitations for what I was doing. I need to be able to move cubes of brick and full pallets of shingles, for example. The EF-5 will. I'm sore for a week and usually end up visiting the chiropractor after drilling a hundred or so holes with the 3-point mounted auger. I'm sure I'll occasionally wish the EF-5 had a 3-point hitch and a mechanical PTO, but when I weigh the things I'm getting instead, I think I'll be happy to exchange them.

MarkC
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   / Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#27  
Re: What a long, strange trip it\'s been...

Darin - I assume your question was directed to me, not to Rat, since he probably changes his underwear, I mean mind, a lot less frequently than I do. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

The retail base cost of an EF-5 is about $40k. Crab steering adds $2k, a 4-in-1 bucket $2k, sideshift backhoe $2k, full blown remote hydraulics and quick attaches front and rear another $2k, approximately.

As for my uses, I do a lot of road grading, a lot of clearing & brush cutting, a lot of landscaping. The landscaping jobs I do involve grading, leveling, stump removal, preparing grass seed beds, putting in decorative ponds, placing decorative stones (as in boulders), hauling lots of mulch, organic material (as in manure), and fill, and digging lots and lots and lots of holes for trees and shrubs. And then there's the usual stuff necessary to maintain 150 acres and 2 miles of driveway.

MarkC
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   / Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #28  
Re: What a long, strange trip it\'s been...

Ok who is taking bets that Mark will change his mind again before it gets here./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Sounds like a much better choice and overall design. Sideshift hoe is real handy at times. As well as the crab walk that could be real nice once you get wedged against a wall.

Got any stuff left over from the Kubota ya want to get rid of? Remember I pay top dollar.---cash money---/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Gordon

8-41268-jgforestrytractor.jpg
 
   / Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#29  
Re: What a long, strange trip it\'s been...

Gordon - I can't change my mind this time - they already have my money...

As for the tractor stuff, a guy who owns a large estate about 15 minutes from my house bought the whole works in a package deal. I'm equipmentless, except for my customized tiller with the scarifier bar on the front of it (which I'm looking for a hydraulic motor for), and my custom-built soil pulverizer. I'm going to put Bobcat-style quick-attach plates on both of them and use them on the EF-5.

MarkC
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   / Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #30  
Re: What a long, strange trip it\'s been...

MarkC,

Thanks for the info and by the sounds of it it is a nicely priced piece of equipment. I just wasn't sure if you did this work commercially or if it was around your homestead. With 155 acres you could call it commercially though. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I am one to buy things that peolple have never heard of or hardly heard of and find that the only draw back is resale value and the more time required for the sale if you ever decide to sell it. But I also dont' make money with my equipment so I need to get top dollar or as close to top dollar as I can to justify my next purchase,,,which from my last dealings might be awhile now. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif "SHould be Off Topic and NO Fun" or something like that was the post about my deal gone bad.

Darin
 
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