got my pto-generator today.

[MicroPilot]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ... If you run a feeder panel out to your shop, 3 wires are fine, but you must install a ground rod system at the shop panel, and connect the neutral to the shop ground at that point.
)</font>

This seems to be in direct opposition to what Spiker said 3 posts earlier:

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...this is primary reason for adding the ground rod @ an out building and sepperating the N and the G inside the SUB-PANEL @ that location, the codes do not know if the garage is 10 feet away, 100 feet away or 1000 feet away. so reason for seperating the G 7 N is that the N is meant as a return path for power, the G is not. the 2nd ground rod is susposed to tie the two buildings together by Location rather than by RESISTANCE of earth. I'm not 100% sure WHY they want the N & G sepperated @ the sub-panel, to me I think that COULD cause a Floating Voltage on the N vs the 2nd G location IF something were to happen to the G wire that is running between the 2 buildings... (remembering that the G & N are tied together in the MAIN PANEL)
)</font>

So which is it? I've been thinking about what Spiker said and it makes sense to me.

I would really like Inspectors507's view on this, but I understand that he tries to refrain from posting on this type of stuff here, and I understand why.

 

[johnbilt]

Hi

I regret if my post created additional confusion. Please understand that the NEC is quite large and I am not a professional electrician.

I will try to point you in the right direction. I would suggest that you get a copy of the NEC or one of the professional publications such as the Holt series to serve as a reference.

**** NEC ****
Reference NEC 250-32
Buildings or Structures Supplied by a Feeder or Branch Circuit.
This states that two options are allowed for a grounded system.

1) Run an equipment grounding conductor with the supply conductors. DO NOT use the bonding jumper in the electrical panel which ties the neutral (grounded conductor) to the ground.

2) When an equipment grounding conductor is NOT run with the supply conductors, AND no continuous metallic path exists between the systems, AND ground fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the common AC service; THEN, DO USE the bonding jumper at the panel.
**** NEC ****

Note that NEC 250-50 states that all structures and buildings shall have a ground electrode system as described. The issue discussed above is how the bonding jumper is handled.

Most residential applications are fed from one panel and therefore this issue is not raised. The neutral is tied to the grounding jumper at the main panel only and provides the required single bonding point. When outbuildings with a new panel are installed, the above issue dealt with in NEC 250-32.

I hope I have helped. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Again, Please consult a local professional, inspector, or power company before performing work.

John

 

[rswyan]

Thanks for info.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You won't be able to enjoy your shop if they have to bury you while trenching in the new cable. )</font>

About 10 years ago we enlarged the yard surrounding the house, cleared a number of trees and hauled in a bunch of topsoil etc. While we had it torn up I decided to replace the old 8" clay drain tiles that drained the front yard. The guys that were spreading out the topsoil and clearing some stumps had a large track excavator and offered to pull the old tiles and run the trench. I totally forgot about the electric service up to the shed .......... he sliced the wires with the excavator .... musta made quite a pop .... definitely freaked him out. I had to repair the cables - used big lugs and then covered them with heatshrink tube. Was a real PITA trying to get enough length to put them all back together while lying down in the mud at the bottom of the ditch. The repair is directly under the new 12" plastic culvert that drains the front yard .... there's probably a safety issue there someplace.

 

[johnbilt]

Hi

We call that "backhoe fade" in the communication industry ! It is surprising how many cables you can find with an excavator. They just seem to grow right out of the ground !

Yep, We've all made those mistakes. Sounds like you made a good splice with the heat shrink though.

Hang in there....

John

 

[johnbilt]

Hi SoundGuy

Back to the original reason for this post....

How is that PTO generator working out ? I've thought about going that route as well. Do you have to run the tractor at full pto speed for it to work properly. How do you maintain 60Hz ??

Eagerly waiting to hear your results.

Thanks

John

 

[Inspector507]

Micro,
I made this post earlier in this thread
<font color="blue"> (2) If you run a feeder to the building with no equipment grounding conductor, a grounding electrode must be installed and the neutral bonded to that electrode and the panel enclosure. This is provided you do not have any continous metallic paths back to the main building such as metal water/air lines, etc. </font>

 

[Soundguy]

Yes.. that tractor 540 pto rpm translates thru the gearbox to I'm guessing 3600 rpm on the genny head.. which in turn is 60hz... And I 'assume' that meaningfull dropin pto rpm will result in lower freq produced at the head. Luckilly ther eis lots of 50/60hz equipment ont he market that -should- tolerate a point or two hi or low.

Soundguy

 

[MicroPilot]

Thanks, Inspector507, I missed that post.

 

[skent]

A friend who has a dairy farm had a nice 40KW PTO Generator that was hooked to a transfer switch. When power would go out, he'd back the JD to the genset and flip the switch. It just so happens that on one occasion, there was a T-storm a few miles down the line, lightening strike took out the line, but not before it jumped the transfer switch contacts and creamed his genset. We scrambled for hours trying to get something big enough to run his Vacuum pump and milking equipment (Having 250 very angry cows wanting to be milked).

I decided to do without the transfer switch mainly due to needing the generator at two different locations. Our house is fed from a different feeder than the farmhouse (1000 feet away). I installed a 220 - 20A socket near the well pump pressure switch. Then connected a pigtail to the pressure switch to plug into the 220 - 20A outlet. That gets me AC from the grid for the pump. When the grid goes down (maybe twice a year) I simply unplug from the 220 - 20A outlet and run to the generator's 220 outlet. No chance of backfeeding and generator is never subjected to the chance of a lightening strike jumping through the transfer switch.

Also invested in several long and heavy duty extension cords to power Refrig, freezer and a few lights. All are kept with the Generator (so I know where they are). For as seldom as we loose power, it was all we really needed.

 

[Soundguy]

Not a bad idea.

I've also seen large twistlock style all weather plugs with rain caps. You can manually pull your genny out of the transfer switch to move it to another location.. or to protect it.

I think my next house will have the transfer switch built in.. but I'm not going to retrofit this one..

Soundguy