GPM availability on MX5800 for Hydraulic Auger?

[Hozzie]

While I am pretty good at understanding most things, Hydraulics are still a bit of black box for me. I know that my MX5800 has a total Hydro system gpm of 14.4 (9.5 for pump flow and 4.9 for Power Steering).

I plan to purchase new Danuser hydraulic Auger, either EP6 or EP10. The EP10 says it needs 10-20 GPM to run it, with 12 being recommended minimum. The EP6 has a bit less torque, but only needs 6-15 to run it. I will be running either from my third function valve with 1/2 flat face connectors (if it makes a difference)

I believe there are different types of power steering pumps, some which may use flow at all times and others which may not (could be completely wrong on that). I am trying to figure out if I will have a little extra GPM when using the auger as I will not be moving or really moving my steering in most cases.

The largest auger I will probably ever use is 12" so I am not sure it makes a ton of difference, but I do have a fair amount of rock and clay and figure the extra torque would be nice.

Anyone using an EP10 with a similar sized tractor? I have searched and found similar questions, but am really wondering if my power steering is always pulling from my GPM at full value?

I am not set on either and am not trying to make my tractor do more than it can, just want to buy the right thing the first time.

Thanks!

 

[snymat68]

Following. opcorntub:

 

[Dave M7040]

Flow for steering is sacred.... you would not want to be motoring down the road, raise your FEL and loose your steering. No, you have no extra when steering is not being turned.

Are you mounting on FEL? If so, expect, when you use the loader controls, to have the auger stop as your system is "Open Center."

Also remember you have no where near the 3,000 psi their literature uses when advertising the torque figure.

Dave M7040

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have yet to see such hydraulic attachments (typically for SS) being used on a tractor.

 

[Hozzie]

I'm not really worried about motoring down the road and running the auger, so I don't see that as an issue. Basically, I will be sitting still, but the open center is valid. Not sure that is a big issue either but definitely something to consider. I am pretty convinced I would need to go with the EP6. It's just for occasional holes for the most part. I just hate always looking backwards for pto attachments.

 

[Hozzie]

Seems to be a lot of them out there made specifically for lower GPM usage. Most people I have read that have them seem to like them. I am not doing commercial work. Just want something easier on the neck that a 3pt version. I like the idea of being able to reverse it as well.

 

[RickB]

The larger unit will develop the advertised torque at the lower flow your tractor will deliver. Auger speed will be the casualty. Generally speaking any hydraulic tool designed for a standard flow skid steer will function acceptably with a flow rate at or near 10 gpm.

 

[Hozzie]

Thanks. Got a quote of $2065 for an EP6 with offset qa mount and 9in bit. Think that seems like a good deal I will probably go forward with.

 

[dfkrug]

Good to hear that Danuser is making a lower-flow unit, the EP6, for tractors. They are known for pro hi-flow units for skidsteers. They use the hex shaft auger bits.

I have set up 3 PHDs for tractors, 2 were the Worksaver 714H, and I built one from off-the-shelf parts. These use the 2" round shaft augers, shared with PTO PHDs.

The hi-flow PHDs will still work on a tractor, albeit slower, but with more torque, assuming same pressure.

As for your implement pump, the total flow is marketing BS since the PS and HST charge flow is not available for implements.

 

[dfkrug]

Got a quote of $2065 for an EP6 with offset qa mount and 9in bit.

Sounds pretty good. I expect that a 714/814H from Worksaver would not be a lot less.

 

[countrybumpkin]

I have one and really like it, started with a 9” and a 15” then also bought a 12” auger. I have have mine offset and really like the visibility over a center mount.

 

[FatTire]

I have the EP6 with similar flow. If purchasing again I would likely go with the EP10 for the torque. I dont usually have to do many holes at once, so time isnt critical, and it doesn't take much to stall out a 10" bit on the EP6. Even a baseball size rock can jam it, depending on position. But with the hydraulic augers you can just reverse it, so they dont get stuck, etc.

 

[Hozzie]

I have the EP6 with similar flow. If purchasing again I would likely go with the EP10 for the torque. I dont usually have to do many holes at once, so time isnt critical, and it doesn't take much to stall out a 10" bit on the EP6. Even a baseball size rock can jam it, depending on position. But with the hydraulic augers you can just reverse it, so they dont get stuck, etc.

Good to know. I can get the EP10 for a couple of hundred more so not an issue either way. I suppose if I went with the EP10 I am better off in case I upgrade tractors some day.

 

[Fallon]

I have the small Danhuser for 10gpm & a 12" auger. My L4060 has about 9gpm of impliment flow (15hp or so @ 2,500psi). I expect about the same as a small MX. It's a bit anemic at times & has less power than my 3pt auger on my old L3200 (25hp PTO). But it's more useful & easier to operate despite being down 10hp.

When you move the loader, the PHD starves & stops spinning. You end up using float or barely moving the loader & it works well. With the big downpressure you can bear, reverse & a relief valve are your friend. It's not hard to stall the PHD, but you dont stall the teactor or damage anything. Reverse is only a button away if you corkscrew it.

Just make sure you get a double acting relief valve as well. They arent standard. When you let go of the valve the motor is spinning & turns into a pump. That can massively overpressure your lines & break things.

 

[dfkrug]

Just make sure you get a double acting relief valve as well. They arent standard. When you let go of the valve the motor is spinning & turns into a pump. That can massively overpressure your lines & break things.

If you can spin a big auger fast, then you will build up a lot of momentum, which will cause a pressure spike when you stop.

The reason that hydraulic PHDs usually do not come with a work-port RV to eliminate these spikes is that they turn pretty slowly.

How fast does yours turn with only 9GPM max flow?

 

[Industrial Toys]

It's the first time I have seen hyd augers on a utility tractor. Or any tractor for that matter.

 

[RickB]

It's the first time I have seen hyd augers on a utility tractor. Or any tractor for that matter.

There’s a first time for everything. Today is your day for this.

 

[Fallon]

If you can spin a big auger fast, then you will build up a lot of momentum, which will cause a pressure spike when you stop.

The reason that hydraulic PHDs usually do not come with a work-port RV to eliminate these spikes is that they turn pretty slowly.

How fast does yours turn with only 9GPM max flow?

Not that fast, probably around the same speed as my old 3pt PHD at idle. I have the relief valve to install on my 3rd function lines, but havent yet. My hoses jump pretty hard when I let off the valve. Way more than when operating the angle on my SSQA plow.

It's a race to see what gives out first, my procrastination or a hose. I know a PHD has orders of magnitude less inertia than a rotary cutter or something, but it has enough to cause problems.

 

[RickB]

Inertia is a concern, but so is the porting of the remote valve. Most valves (other than motor control valves) are designed so the return port closes just before the supply port. This keeps cylinders pressurized a bit and reduces cylinder drift. This also creates pressure spikes in orbit motors which can be harmful. If the control valve has a float position shifting the lever to float to stop the orbit motor eliminates pressure spikes.