Grapple hydraulics install

[oneillmj]

I purchased a small grapple for my first tractor, a Kioti CK35, this past Fall and want to install it for use this Spring. I've plenty of experience with plumbing but little with hydraulics, so please pardon any dumb or dumber questions here. The grapple is only for occasional use on my ten acres.

1. First I understand I will need to purchase a diverter valve or something similar to route hydraulic fluid to the grapple when in use. In plumbing, a diverter valve might cost less than twenty dollars. The least expensive hydraulic diverter valve for this application I've seen costs over $400. What exactly are you paying for here?

2. From the diverter valve to the grapple I'll need to run a length of hydraulic hose. I think there may be different types of connectors to go on the hose. What should I be looking for in this regard?

3. When you install the new hydraulic valve and hose how do you keep hydraulic fluid from squirting or leaking out all over the place? And do you have to bleed the new line like you would a new brake line on your car?

4. I was considering positioning the new diverter valve right after the control that raises and lowers the three point hitch, so that same control could alternately control the grapple opening and closing when in use. Is that a reasonable idea or no?

Thanks you very much for any replies.

Mike

 

[Underdog57]

Do you have any rear hydraulic ports back by the 3 PT. Hitch?

 

[mwayne]

If you haven't, maybe watch this guy's series of videos on the subject:

installing a third function on a budget part 1 - YouTube

 

[oneillmj]

Do you have any rear hydraulic ports back by the 3 PT. Hitch?

I don't believe so, but I will go out and double-check to be sure.

Mike

 

[oneillmj]

If you haven't, maybe watch this guy's series of videos on the subject:

installing a third function on a budget part 1 - YouTube

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Mike

 

[Bearsixty7]

Not cheap, but may be the simplest answer and the least hassle or headache.

3rd function auxiliary hydraulic kits for all brands of tractors and loaders

 

[dstig1]

Here was mine. Expect easily $700 for a diverter, hoses, fittings, etc

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/282127-new-tractor-mods.html?highlight=

 

[ericm979]

The 3pt is the last valve in the circuit. The flow dumps into the tank from there. You have to put it in the chain before the 3pt.

Use JIC connectors. They are super common and work much better than NPT. Hoses commonly come with JIC female on each end. But many valves and other fittings have NPT or SAE ports so you will need adaptors. Use LocTite 545 on NPT threads for hydraulics.

You can use either a diverter or a 3rd function. The diverter is usually plumbed to divert the loader's curl/dump circuit. That way you can keep your hand on the loader valve (with a switch on the knob). Using the 3pt would mean dropping your hand way down to the 3pt control to operate the grapple. I have a remote valve on the fender with the handle positioned next to the loader joystick, and even moving my hand 6" is noticably slowing my grapple operation. Eventually I will make a 3rd function.

With a diverter on the curl circuit you can't curl and open/close the grapple at the same time. But your loader valve may not allow that anyhow. Mine doesn't. When operated all flow goes out the dump port, none to the power beyond port. Many loader valves have regen on the curl circuit, where flow goes between the two sides of the curl cylinder to keep the bucket from "flopping" (for an explanation see https://www.****************.com/th...ive-function-of-a-fel-valve-read-it-here.749/). That won't work well for a grapple.

With a 3rd function you could theoretically operate the loader, curl and grapple at the same time. If your loader valve isn't like mine and sends flow out the PB port when operated. In practice you'd have to have a really good loader valve and have the loads on all three cylinder equal, otherwise the one with the least pressure moves first. So it's not likely to work.

The diverter on the loader curl lets you "feather" the force to the grapple and the 3rd function doesn't. Except I never ever actually do that. It's always full on until the lids stop moving.

The diverter or 3rd function valve itself can be had for about $125 and up. The major costs will be the valve and the replacement knob for the joystick that has the button or buttons on it. Good ones can be close to $200. But there are a lot of cheaper alternatives that may be slightly less ergonomic. You'll also need hoses and fittings, and will need to make some brackets.

Or you can get a kit. The WR Long 3rd fuction kit is well regarded and costs about $850.

 

[jthibodeau89]

I'm doing a DIY conversion on the curl circuit. Surplus Center has the diverter valve for $60. The aftermaket wiring harness is ~$90 from Kenny at Bolt-on-Hooks. Adapters and hose ends will run ~$75. I already have the hose. I will run hard lines down the inside of the boom to the OEM location. I'm using ORFS hose ends to match the current JD hoses on my 4300 tractor with 430 loader. If you go with an OEM joystick switch, be sure to confirm the contact amp rating. The OEM JD ergo joystick is rated for signal level currents only, and requires control relays for the diverter valve. I will mount the diverter valve on my loader frame, so the wiring harness will also need a mid-joint like the hoses to allow decoupling the loader.

I'm sure you will enjoy your grapple. I am using mine with the manual 3rd SCV until i get the diverter installed..

 

[oneillmj]

Thank you jthbodeau89, ericm979, dstig1, and Bearsixty7 for your advice. I will look at all the links you provided this morning soon as I have a minute, and will get back to you here if I've any questions on any of your well appreciated replies.

Mike.

 

[oneillmj]

Do you have any rear hydraulic ports back by the 3 PT. Hitch?

I did double check today and there are none.

 

[k0ua]

I did double check today and there are none.

Well, that just sucks. I was going to tell you a low dollar way, which I am using with my DK35se to plumb your grapple. However, now that just evaporated.

The manual diverter valve down by the seat is really gonna suck from a time/utility standpoint. You need something with in easy reach of your joystick hand. BUT time/utility is all relative. What might just bug the heck out of someone might be just fine and the dandy to you. What you really want is the electric over hydraulic so called 3rd function valve plumbed in after the loader and before the 3 point with the two buttons on the joystick. Open and close.

I use the rear hydraulics to power my grapple and have less than $150 total for hoses and fittings installed. Did the work myself, and extending my rear remote lever so I could access it with my fingers while my right hand is still on the loader joystick. You can read about my journey below. Good luck with yours.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...connects-loader-torque.html?highlight=grapple

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...on-control-valve-lever.html?highlight=grapple

 

[old and tired]

I don't know your tractor, does it have Power Beyond? IF it does, just add a single spool after the FEL, mount it next to it. Like this one: 1 Spool 8 GPM Prince MB11B5C1 DA Valve

Just a thought but what about just replacing the 2 spool FEL control with 3 spools?

Something like this: HYDRAULIC LOADER VALVE 3 SPOOL W/JOYSTICK 10 GPM W/FLOAT SPOOL | eBay

You can use the old 2 spool for Top-N-Tilt control if you add that later (or just sell it).

 

[senecak19]

I知 sure one of those video links will answer all your questions. I literally just finished my third function installation on my Kubota L3200 and I had ALL the same questions you had. I purchased the Landpride kit so everything I needed was in the box. Pretty straight forward install. About the only thing I bought extra was Loctote 545 for my hydraulic connections. I don稚 want them leaking anytime soon. As for hydraulic fluid loss, if you relieve your hydraulic system you won稚 virtually any. I didn稚 lose enough to even coat the bottom of a 5 gallon pail. Of course, my new hoses took some fluid and I keep checking my glass window and still aren稚 even close to having to add any back in. Go at it with confidence. I went a little bit further with the electrical and added a secondary fuse box to accommodate wiring for my 3rd function as well as LED lights.

 

[airbiscuit]

I don't know your tractor, does it have Power Beyond? IF it does, just add a single spool after the FEL, mount it next to it. Like this one: 1 Spool 8 GPM Prince MB11B5C1 DA Valve

Just a thought but what about just replacing the 2 spool FEL control with 3 spools?

Something like this: HYDRAULIC LOADER VALVE 3 SPOOL W/JOYSTICK 10 GPM W/FLOAT SPOOL | eBay

You can use the old 2 spool for Top-N-Tilt control if you add that later (or just sell it).

Ideal for use on front end loaders with a grapple.
Hydraulic control valve three spool 1st spool is a float spool the other 2 are 4 way 3 position spring center spools. With joystick.
Open center. With float spool, perfect for loaders.
This compact valve will work in many applications.
Work ports are SAE #8, Inlet and outlet are SAE #10 ports.
Anti-drop load checks on each spool.
Pressure relief is adjustable from 435 PSI to 3,600 PSI and preset at 2,700 PSI.
Max pressure 3,625 PSI.
Max flow 10 GPM.
Power Beyond Plug is Item 273941821347
Closed Center Plug is Item 273008910731

 

[oneillmj]

Thank you all for your replies. Sorry for the belated response but I unfortunately had to replace my computer, and have only now gotten the new one up and running, What a pain. Anyway, I very much appreciate your responses and will spend some time studying them ASAP and figuring out the best route to get this project done.

Mike

 

[Big Chief]

Use the power beyond port and add a second valve which allows infinite control and fine adjustments of the grapple.

I really like the previous posted integrated 2nd valve.

 

[oneillmj]

I've got to figurer out if there is a power beyond port. I looked for it carefully but am unsure even after a careful inspection. I'll have to reread the manual but didn't come across a reference about it on first look.
I'd call the dealer and ask except he went out of business. Nothing is ever easy it seems. Your idea is probably the way to go though if there is the port.

Mike

 

[Big Chief]

Take a picture of your loader valve

 

[oneillmj]

Or you can get a kit. The WR Long 3rd function kit is well regarded and costs about $850.

I did end up biting the bullet and getting the pricier W.R. Long 3rd function kit Eric suggested from Everything Attachments. It has all the parts needed, is made to fit the Kioti CK35 and its loader exactly, and should be more versatile than only a diverter valve. And most importantly the kit containing all the parts needed should lessen the chances of screwing up my first attempt at hydraulics work, not an insignificant factor, while limiting trips to the store to get needed parts and risk catching Covid-19. Thanks all for your input and Eric for his recommendation of the W.R. kit. Can't wait to get the grapple in place and working, although a snow plow might be more useful at present. Maybe next year for that.

Mike