Sure, I have to box blade my 800 foot drive every spring, whether I put in new gravel or not, but that is what I bought the tractor for. An asphalt drive would partially negate having a tractor, and that just wont happen.
Gravel - Driveway Question
- Thread starter Tractor_Jim_CT
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The problem, as I see it, and as a gravel hauler explained it to me, is that too many fines retains the water and creates puddles. Now if you can get enough crown and slope to eliminate the puddles you won't have any problems. But puddles at the surface will cause problems as described below.
When you get puddles (which almost always happens due to compaction in the wheel travel areas) the problems start. What happens is that the vehicle wheels splash through the puddles, and throw fines and small material out of the area, and so the puddle gets deeper. The more the puddle is driven through, the deeper it becomes, until you have a pothole, due to throwing additional material out of the hole each time a wheel runs through it.
Two solutions.
1. Drive very slowly through the puddles (yeah right, and try to get the neighbor to slow down!)
2. Gravel hauler says to use larger gravel (like #53 w/o fines) on top of the base of finer material. This way any water that is retained by the fines is below the driving surface. Since the wheels don't splash through the water no potholes develope. This isn't very good for snow removal, as the larger, looser gravel on top is easy to push off into places you don't want. But it works well during the summer, especially if it is rainy. And it helps to cut down on the dust as the fines are below the primary driving surface and not stirred up quite as easily.
When you get puddles (which almost always happens due to compaction in the wheel travel areas) the problems start. What happens is that the vehicle wheels splash through the puddles, and throw fines and small material out of the area, and so the puddle gets deeper. The more the puddle is driven through, the deeper it becomes, until you have a pothole, due to throwing additional material out of the hole each time a wheel runs through it.
Two solutions.
1. Drive very slowly through the puddles (yeah right, and try to get the neighbor to slow down!)
2. Gravel hauler says to use larger gravel (like #53 w/o fines) on top of the base of finer material. This way any water that is retained by the fines is below the driving surface. Since the wheels don't splash through the water no potholes develope. This isn't very good for snow removal, as the larger, looser gravel on top is easy to push off into places you don't want. But it works well during the summer, especially if it is rainy. And it helps to cut down on the dust as the fines are below the primary driving surface and not stirred up quite as easily.
2nstonge
Gold Member
The town I live in has more miles of gravel roads than paved, also, my driveway and the loop around the barn measures almost 1000ft. Sadly, there's no way to truely eliminate pot holes - all you can do is get the driveway stable enough to minimize the number of times a year you have to 'grade' it.
Our town uses a mix of small stones; pea stones to maybe a 1/2 inch in diameter and course sand with a healthy dose of clay mixed in. The local sand & gravel yard simply calls it "road gravel" and they always have mounds of it available. It wasn't expensive, I had to re-do our entire driveway 2 years ago and 15 yards of the road gravel was only about $300 delivered.
The town does our road 3-4 times a year, a dump truck goes by and 'meters' out a thin layer of road gravel in areas that have pot holes. Then a grader comes by, the belly blade is serrated; the tines are about an inch long. The grader scrapes the top 2 inches, going by once in each direction. The operator says the key is to break down the "crown" of the pot hole - that's the hard lip that forms all around the rim. They don't even bother to compact it, the cars using the road do it for them. It's amazing how well this mixer & technique holds up. I've been using my FEL and a regular iron garden rake to do my driveway the same way. A back breaking, weekend long job that will be easier this year with a box blade and landscape rake. Bottom line is you'll never get a gravel driveway to the point that pot holes won't form, all you can do is initiate a maintenance routine to stay ahead of it. Maybe your neighbors will help fund a box blade??
-Norm
Our town uses a mix of small stones; pea stones to maybe a 1/2 inch in diameter and course sand with a healthy dose of clay mixed in. The local sand & gravel yard simply calls it "road gravel" and they always have mounds of it available. It wasn't expensive, I had to re-do our entire driveway 2 years ago and 15 yards of the road gravel was only about $300 delivered.
The town does our road 3-4 times a year, a dump truck goes by and 'meters' out a thin layer of road gravel in areas that have pot holes. Then a grader comes by, the belly blade is serrated; the tines are about an inch long. The grader scrapes the top 2 inches, going by once in each direction. The operator says the key is to break down the "crown" of the pot hole - that's the hard lip that forms all around the rim. They don't even bother to compact it, the cars using the road do it for them. It's amazing how well this mixer & technique holds up. I've been using my FEL and a regular iron garden rake to do my driveway the same way. A back breaking, weekend long job that will be easier this year with a box blade and landscape rake. Bottom line is you'll never get a gravel driveway to the point that pot holes won't form, all you can do is initiate a maintenance routine to stay ahead of it. Maybe your neighbors will help fund a box blade??
-Norm
Egon
Epic Contributor
Sorry to say but that gravel hauler may not be the best information source for road construction methods and materials configuration. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Egon
Egon
beenthere
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As Egon suggested, and I agree, this 'gravel hauler' guy's comment about 'fines' doesn't agree with my 35 years of very successful gravel drive maintenance experience. Whenever the gravel hauler came with 'no fines', I had problems. Sometimes had to send him back to get a load from the part of the pile that had the fines (it separates some when crushing gravel). Without fines mixed in and compacted, the top larger stones quickly become loose marbles which affects stability of vehicles as well as the stones move and roll off to the side (and you are down to the fines in the 'rut').
Sorry, can't agree with your 'gravel hauler', but each have to decide if his suggestions fit their own drive situation. I know there are huge differences between local 'gravel' quality across the country. Makes for some standard answers for all to be difficult to come by, at best.
Your theory of how the pot holes continue to get bigger is well said, and the crown to keep water from collecting is important as well. That we can agree on. But I like a firm and tight gravel layer on top that is knitted and packed together with fines. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Sorry, can't agree with your 'gravel hauler', but each have to decide if his suggestions fit their own drive situation. I know there are huge differences between local 'gravel' quality across the country. Makes for some standard answers for all to be difficult to come by, at best.
Your theory of how the pot holes continue to get bigger is well said, and the crown to keep water from collecting is important as well. That we can agree on. But I like a firm and tight gravel layer on top that is knitted and packed together with fines. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
djradz
Veteran Member
Although the fines are necessary, my experience has been that the base, usually made up of a clay, sand and gravel mix, is adequate to hold the surface stone. What I've found most important is to have a good top layer of crushed rock/stone. Something in the vicinity of 1/2" to 1". My father's drive, which is almost 1/4-mile long up a fairly steep hill, was prepared with a crushed stone surface (about 2" deep, with fines) over 5 years ago, and has not required regrading yet. Absolutely amazing, as prior to reconditioning we were grading it several times a year. The crushed, (note - not round pea-stone) made all the difference in the world.
Darren
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Like others have mentioned if you don't have a water problem, you won't have potholes. Besides crowning the road you need to make sure you have the drainage to keep water from overflowing onto the road.
When you buy stone you do want the crush and run (dirty, with fines) to lock everything togther. If you get everything good and tight along with the drainage, about all you might want to do periodically is dress the top with fines to restrict water from getting to the subgrade. Once the subgrade gets wet it can't hold up under the wheel loads. When that happens you get potholes.
Water in the subgrade can also cause freeze-thaw problems which are more of a problem with flexible pavements.
When you buy stone you do want the crush and run (dirty, with fines) to lock everything togther. If you get everything good and tight along with the drainage, about all you might want to do periodically is dress the top with fines to restrict water from getting to the subgrade. Once the subgrade gets wet it can't hold up under the wheel loads. When that happens you get potholes.
Water in the subgrade can also cause freeze-thaw problems which are more of a problem with flexible pavements.
Dachshund
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You might also mix in lime , especially if the rock you get has few fines.
Dachshund
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Surge - where in Nebraska you located? I/m down by Tecumseh.
lmiller
Bronze Member
I ran across this recently
<font color="blue">http://mainegov-images.informe.org/dep/blwq/docwatershed/camproad.pdf
</font>
It covers all the suggestions mentioned and adds a few drainage tricks.
Can't wait to see how much "work" it will take to fix up my gravel drive this spring.
Lou
<font color="blue">http://mainegov-images.informe.org/dep/blwq/docwatershed/camproad.pdf
</font>
It covers all the suggestions mentioned and adds a few drainage tricks.
Can't wait to see how much "work" it will take to fix up my gravel drive this spring.
Lou
