Great Looking Welds

[Tom_Veatch]

...seem to be totally beyond me!

Unless I grind them flush, smear bondo all over them, sand them smooth, and paint 'em. Then they look pretty good.

Bought a used Miller Thunderbolt XL 235/160 AC/DC box for less than half list price (about what I would have paid for a new Lincoln 225 AC box at Home Depot). Had to replace the leads, 'though. The previous owner had spliced in what looks like 4/0 standed cable to get some additional length. Since I don't trust electrical splices done with duct tape, I junked them and had new leads made up by the local Miller distributor.

The box works nice. At least it throws an arc, melts the welding rod, and lays a bead. Can't really say whether it's working like it's supposed to since the results are filtered through my sorry@$$ed welding technique.

Since that sucker is 100+ lbs, figured my first project will be a simple little cart to drag it around on. No, strike that. First project was running a new 50 amp 240v circuit in the workshop. Second project is the cart. It's going together, welds look like chicken poop, but at least the parts I've done haven't fallen apart (yet)!

Ordered some welding DVD's from Wall Mountain that I saw mentioned in another thread and will see if they help any. Also am looking into some welding courses at the local Vo-Tech which start in January.

Think I'll buy me a long stick of flat stock, saw it up into coupons and see if I can use those 10 lbs of 6011 and 6013 rod I picked up at Home Depot to discover the secret of a good looking weld. One of these days I'm going to stick a couple of pieces of steel together with a weld I won't be ashamed to show!

 

[Lynkage]

Hi Tom
I am just getting started as well. What I have found is I can lay a fairly good bead with 6011/13 but I run into trouble with 7018. One of my friends who is a welder calls my welds Bird SH!... Of course he is telling me this for my own good

I can tell you this the "puddle" is what is most important. You need to watch it so that the flux does not run back into or ahead of your weld/puddle.

BTW it is easier said than done!!!

I did get to use some 7024 on one of my buddy's projects and boy was that stuff NEET!! you just kind of lay the rod down where you are going to weld and lay a little pressure on it with your hand and wala!! pretty welds.
Only problem with it is it's not all position rod only flat.

Also my buddy always tells me you just need to make things and you will either get better or you will get real good at grinding!

 

[Egon]

Practice and more practice fellows. A short course on the use of different rods and techniques for different metalls will also help. And just like the old muzzel loaders, keep your rods dry.

Uhh - I don't weld but have spent many a day watching class B welders at work. Usually on schedule 160 pipe or structural steel supports.

 

[MX5000]

...seem to be totally beyond me!

Unless I grind them flush, smear bondo all over them, sand them smooth, and paint 'em. Then they look pretty good.

Bought a used Miller Thunderbolt XL 235/160 AC/DC box for less than half list price (about what I would have paid for a new Lincoln 225 AC box at Home Depot). Had to replace the leads, 'though. The previous owner had spliced in what looks like 4/0 standed cable to get some additional length. Since I don't trust electrical splices done with duct tape, I junked them and had new leads made up by the local Miller distributor.

The box works nice. At least it throws an arc, melts the welding rod, and lays a bead. Can't really say whether it's working like it's supposed to since the results are filtered through my sorry@$$ed welding technique.

Since that sucker is 100+ lbs, figured my first project will be a simple little cart to drag it around on. No, strike that. First project was running a new 50 amp 240v circuit in the workshop. Second project is the cart. It's going together, welds look like chicken poop, but at least the parts I've done haven't fallen apart (yet)!

Ordered some welding DVD's from Wall Mountain that I saw mentioned in another thread and will see if they help any. Also am looking into some welding courses at the local Vo-Tech which start in January.

Think I'll buy me a long stick of flat stock, saw it up into coupons and see if I can use those 10 lbs of 6011 and 6013 rod I picked up at Home Depot to discover the secret of a good looking weld. One of these days I'm going to stick a couple of pieces of steel together with a weld I won't be ashamed to show!

It's funny, two years ago I bought a new arc welder setup. When it came to installing the 220vac circuit in the garage, I found the breaker panel in the cellar didn't have any more nuetral and ground spots free to connect the wire I ran to the garage. I bought the new buss bars for the breaker box, but still haven't installed them. A couple days ago, my new Lincoln 100 110vac welder came in. It's all set up and ready to go. I set it down right next to the arc welder. Now they can keep each other company...

Howard

 

[EddieWalker]

Without seeing what your doing in person, I'll tell you that the most common thing I see beginners do is move too fast. You need to hold the top of the welding rod in place long enough for everything to melt together and form a pool. Then you slowly work your way along with very small little sweeps back and forth from metal edge to metal edge while keeping the pool, or puddle of liquid metal.

Clean metal will help allot, but you should still get a decent bead with scrap using 6013 or 6011.

You can also increase your amperage it your not getting a good pool of liquid material. More powere will melt more metal. Too much and you melt right through it, so don't go crazy. Just increase your setting by ten and try it again.

When I tought my wife to weld, I had a bunch of small, flat pieces of scrap that I gave her to practice on. In a few hours, she had the basics down. Being consistant is another story. hahahha

Welding school is great, but it's also like opening Pandora's box. You will learn on all sorts of different welders, techniques and applications. It could easily lead to the need for more and more tools!!!!!

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[Renze]

I agree with Eddie, beginners usually go too fast.
Most welding rod boxes show a recommendation of the amperage needed for the rod. Add 10 amps when welding dirty stuff, or very thick plates that absorb more welding heat from the workpiece itself.
When welding with rods, usually wire brushing is enough to get things going, unless there is zinc or heavy paint. Even though it might not be needed, i do PREFER to work on blank ground metal, just because it makes things easier.
I use the MIG welder as much as i can but i also keep my old stick welder for those spots i couldnt clean with the grinder.

Just try it like this: as soon as the rod is starting to weld, try to let it float over the metal. easiest is to learn it on a 90° angle weld so the rod can find its way through the L groove. dont push it, dont lift it and dont let yourself be fooled by the slug on top of the weld. When it seems you make a weird caterpillar, just hammer the slug away and underneath is a nice flat weld.

 

[Highbeam]

I have just gotten to the point of passable welds with my AC225 box. I find the 60 series rods much easier to make a good loooking weld. Brand new (dry) 7018 rods make good looking welds but as soon as they absorb some moisture from the air then the bird poo is back.

Don't worry about cutting up the scrap, you can weld a flat weld right on top of a flat piece of plate. First thing to master is flat welds.

Keep adding amperage until it burns through and then back off a notch.

I have found that a good clean ground connection with the ground clamp makes a big difference in flattening bird poo into a good weld. The angle of the stick to the puddle is also a factor as the arc sorta blows metal into the puddle. Keep the puddle white hot and about the size of the desired finished weld.

A welding cart is about the most common first welding project ever and it is a good one since every time you use the welder you will be reminded of how far you've come.

 

[firemanpat2910]

I am no expert but I have welded a lot on the last 30 years. Eddie is right, slow down,sweep very slowly and watch your puddle. Now if I could get my calk lines as nice as my welds I would be doing good

 

[JHFV]

Well i dont want to hijack your thread but i just got my 220 wired in the garage and want to buy me a welder for things around the farm, problem is I know nothing about welding and dont know which one to buy. Im very handy Ive built a house a barn and others so I got some skills. Any suggestions on what to buy?

 

[wushaw]

Well i dont want to hijack your thread but i just got my 220 wired in the garage and want to buy me a welder for things around the farm, problem is I know nothing about welding and dont know which one to buy. Im very handy Ive built a house a barn and others so I got some skills. Any suggestions on what to buy?

Miller, Lincoln or hobart will do just fine as far as brand. 220 volt machine with at least 200amp & rating or something that can weld up to 1/2" in single pass so you won't be wanting a new machine with more power in six months.

Ennis oxygen & welding south of Ennis on R/H side of 45 is a good local welding supply and their machines are not priced too high.

 

[DieselPower]

As stated previously, keep your speed down, use the correct current setting and practice, practice, practice.

Want some welds that look like they were laid by the welding god's themselves? Buy some high tensile strength stainless steel rod's. I use a stainless steel rod made by KAR and called their Blue Max rod line that I use to weld steel to stainless and to weld steel to steel when I need a super strong weld. They melt like butter and it's almost impossible to get a poor weld with these thing's, vertical, horizontal, dirty, clean, just doesn't seem to matter. Cost more but they are worth it for critical welds. All welding rod manufacturers have rods like these by different names. They do not use the normal rod numbering system since their tensile strength goes beyond the normal 4 digit rod coding system. Most have a 100-160,000 PSI tensile. strength.

 

[Glowplug]

I had all but purchased a Lincoln 180 MIG unit for small projects and repairs around the farm. I dunno tho. This thread makes me want to consider a stick welder. Sounds like more of a sexy art than flux cored wire welding.

 

[fattyfat1]

as a pipefitter who welds and works with the best welders in the trade, i gotta say you guys have great advice. an old timer once told me "you gotta burn 10,000 rods to be a good stick welder" he was right! practice is key. really clean the heat affected area well, paint, grease etc. can migrate into the weld zone while you are welding causing porosity, incomplete penetration, lack of fusion, and harmful fumes. more ginding during prep means alot less grinding later. get a cheap rod oven, or stick your rod in the oven for an hour or so to dry it out. even sealed in a can it has more moisture in it than you want, once that can is open, it pulls moisture from the air causing the above problems. you definetely sound like you're on the right track, good luck, and remember, all welds are not flat, and rod acts different when welding uphill, downhill, or overhead. practice all of these positions so you know what to expect out in the field.
Trev

 

[Tom_Veatch]

I want to thank all of you for the good, practical advice. I've burned a few more rods since my original post on this subject, and although I'm not laying down welds that look like a "row of dimes", there was one bead today that looked like there may be a dime in there somewhere. But I sure ain't ready to take any certification tests.

The "slow down" comments have been especially beneficial. But, I've learned there's a happy medium between too fast and too slow. I've got a drill press for those times I want 3/4" holes in a part . But, I was able to make several passes (with considerably lower amperage) and fill in the hole. After grinding and filing it smooth, it's hard to tell there was ever a hole there. Wouldn't trust it for anything I really cared about, but at least its cosmetically OK.

Everything I've been playing with is 1/8 mild steel angles, flat stock and square tube. I've been using 1/8 6011 and 3/32 6013 Lincoln rods. Any suggestions about what amperages might be appropriate for that? (100+ amp and real slow travel = 3/4" hole in 1" square tube. YIKES!)

Thanks again, but please don't stop the words of wisdom!

 

[Lynkage]

I was finding last night on some 1/8" angle that about 70-90 setting on my Lincoln 225 buzz box w/ 3 32 7018 was just about right. I was finding that was about right for 60xx rod as well. If the metal was thicker then you will need to turn it up a bit. I also found that 1/8" is about the thinnest metal I would try to use a stick on as well.

I was able to lay a few good welds w/7018 last night!!

I do recommend trying some 7018 as I have been told "if you can weld 7018 you will be better at almost everything"

 

[Egon]

Just a word of warning: Just about the time you figure your getting pretty good is the time you become dangerous and step out of the metal niche you have been working in. Then everything changes and it's back to square one.

Please note: I do not weld

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Just a word of warning: Just about the time you figure your getting pretty good is the time you become dangerous and step out of the metal niche you have been working in. Then everything changes and it's back to square one.

Please note: I do not weld

Oh, I'm a long way from getting anywhere close to thinking I'm "getting pretty good". Right now, I'm thinking that anyone who would even consider asking me to do any welding for them is a certifiable candidate for those guys in the white coats!

But, seriously, your caution is well taken.

I've heard there are four stages to learning about anything.
1. You don't know what you don't know. (Beginning Apprentice)
2. You know what you don't know. (Advanced Apprentice)
3. You know what you know. (Journeyman)
4. You don't know what you know. (Master and true expert)

Right now, I'm real deep into Stage 1!

 

[RonR]

HI Tom,

I've migrated to almost 100% usage of 6013, 1/8" rod, set about 120 on the old lincoln. For thicker stuff, I'll go up to 5/32" 6013 running at 135 amps.

For me, on semi clean metal, the 6013 lays down a nicer bead.

If I have painted steel and/or need deeper penetration, I'll use 6011. I can't normally get as good a bead with 6011.

Thin stuff I have burn through issues, but use the 3/32 6013 at 75-90. You can't daudle on the thin stuff without burning through.

Not sure where you get your steel, but the Yard Store usually has a good assortment of nearly new steel. If you buy a 20ft stick, they'll make one cut free so you can haul it in a pickup. Or you can buy just a length of what you want.

I have an ever growing spread of steel under the wife's car in the garage, much to her chagrin............

Be sure to post pics of what you build................. If it has poor welds, don't do close ups. Or, post pics of any substandard welds and guys here can offer tips on what you might have done better at...................

Ron

 

[Highbeam]

With 1/8" base metal you are going to have trouble with the 1/8" electrodes. There is a lot of heat associated with a 220 volt arc welder on thick rods, so it is not the right combination for this thin stuff. If you can lay a decent weld on 1/8" thick base metal then you can do good welds with 3/8" plate.

The above is to say that you would do better with thinner rods for 1/8" base metal.


I have filled in my share of burn throughs too.