Green energy

[tonycrow]

I just purchased a home with a barn on a separate piece of property on it's own electrcal power supply. We heat 10 water buckets for the horse stalls and paddocks, have a water supply well pump in a heated room and have incandescent lighting. Being from the north, it is tough to get flourescent lighting to work in really cold weather. There is also a heated stock waterer between a couple of the pens. I would love to go green with this barn, but don't know where to begin. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dave1949]

Since the barn has its own electric service, I assume it has a meter for the barn only. If so, that is excellent because after a couple months use, you will have an accurate reading of how much power you use/need. That is where you need to begin--how much power is needed on a daily average.

 

[tonycrow]

Yes, a separate meter. I know that my water buckets total about 1500 watts, light bulbs when all are on at least that much including yard lights. I also plug in my tractor when close to or below freezing. I don't know how much energy the water pump uses, or the in ground stock waterer either. I am expecting my first billing any day now.

 

[BeezFun]

I feel your pain, we also have horses. Heating the water is the big power consumer, you can cut that down by using insulated buckets, or at least setting them on a piece of 2" foam. I enclosed our larger trough in a plywood box that's insulated on all 4 sides and has a horse snout sized cutout in the top, that cut the bill about in half. I also have two frost proof waterers that don't require electricity, they work like a frost proof hydrant. Only problem is horses can't use them with grazing muzzles so they aren't much use other than at night.

They make little devices you can plug in to measure the power consumption of a device, one is called Killawatt. They also make clamp on devices, but they're pretty expensive.

They make cold start fluorescents, mine work pretty well down to about 0, below that they're pretty slow to turn on. You might try CFLs, I've found the ones that have a globe over the twisted bulb work well below zero and start reasonably quickly. If you just get the kind with the twisted bulb they start out with barely a glow and take forever to brighten up.

 

[dave1949]

Yes, a separate meter. I know that my water buckets total about 1500 watts, light bulbs when all are on at least that much including yard lights. I also plug in my tractor when close to or below freezing. I don't know how much energy the water pump uses, or the in ground stock waterer either. I am expecting my first billing any day now.

I forgot to say Welcome!

Your actual usage from the bill is more useful than ratings. For example, a water bucket heater rated at 1500W may have a thermostat that turns it off and on as needed. When it is on, it may not actually use 1500W.

I think you are going to have a challenge with off-grid (no utility service) solar electric energy in the cold parts of winter. You need overnight power, and the only way to get that with solar electric is to use batteries. Batteries are most efficient at ~72*F. You will lose a lot of capacity if they are freezing or below. People usually try to locate their battery banks in a heated area, which I guess you don't have in the barn.

Heating a small room built for the batteries, by the power from batteries, is probably a lost cause. But maybe some super-insulated battery box within the barn might be worth considering. The battery box usually needs to be vented due to the danger of hydrogen gas build up. In any case, needing a battery bank adds a lot to the cost.

If grid-tied systems (some solar power, some utility power, no batteries needed) are possible in your location, then you produce what you can, and buy the rest from the utility.

 

[tonycrow]

I don't have insulated buckets, but I could build boxes for the outside ones that sit on the ground. The ones in the stalls, hang from the walls, so they might be tougher.
I have never tried the covered CFL's. I have tried the regular coiled ones and they are not good in cold weather.
Thanks for the input!

 

[tonycrow]

Thanks!
Good point on the buckets having thermostats, I would suspect that they do. I do have access to a heated room, and may be able to put the batteries in there. It has limited space, but with some organization I am sure I can do something. How much venting would I need then?
I would love to go off grid, but would need a significant array of solar panels to do so, especially in winter. I have approached the federal government and am waiting on a package from them which may include grants and other incentives.

 

[dave1949]

You don't need a lot of venting. The battery boxes I have seen, with 8 large lead-acid batteries, are built with a hinged lid that is higher across the back than the front. A 2 or 3 inch pvc pipe is enough at the high side on top and similar sized screened vent holes at the bottom of the box on the sides. Hydrogen is lighter than air, so it just needs a place to escape.

The economics of replacing existing grid power with an off-grid system with batteries are against you. I would be surprised if you can come close to justifying the cost. Once you have a couple of months of billing/usage history, you can design a system to meet that requirement and price it out. Winter is a good time to do that, since that is the worst-case--highest usage and lowest power production--time of year.

In the mean time, you can research battery choices. I know of people who use deep-cycle golf cart batteries and others who use top of the line monsters.
Batteries: Flooded Lead Acid

There are lots of sites like this: Off Grid Calculator that help you calculate system sizes.

Serious off-griders usually assume they will need to get through a 3-4 day sunless period and size their battery capacity for that. Or, plan to fall back on a generator if you want to minimize the system capacity.

 

[tonycrow]

Thanks so much, all great info and the calculator will help as well. I do hope that our government up here wants to help the environment too. I may not be able to completely replace the grid, but if we all do a little, we are doing our world some good. Now if I could economically convert manure to replace some fossil fuels. Then the generator if needed becomes a part of the system too. Thanks again!

 

[Biggreenavalanche]

I would love to go off grid, but would need a significant array of solar panels to do so, especially in winter.


Would a dual pronged approach be feasible up there, ie...make use of wind power along with the solar ? You may want to check into a wind tubine generator...also, for long term consider a methane powered generator, get the methane from the horse excretement...lot of plans for the methane generation on line...just a couple of thoughts...

Rich

 

[tonycrow]

Wind generation is really not a great option. My barn and fields surrounding it are well protected by hills and stands of trees, not a lot of wind. I will do some looking at methane generation....great idea!

 

[CNC Dan]

i think a grid tie system is your best bet. You size your panels to make what you use. When you are in full sun during the day you put power into the grid. At night you take power from the grid. The grid is your battery, so to speak. And if your system fails, or you have a long cloudy spell you still have power.

 

[Qapla]

You could look into LED lights. The initial cost can be a bit high but the long term operating cost is way lower than anything else.

 

[texasjohn]

Think about solar water heating...and a reasonably large reserve tank inside the building...water can get pretty hot when the sun shines...and heat escaping the tank in the building will help keep it warm. Heating water is apparently one of your larger tasks.

 

[tonycrow]

Thanks, that is the system that will work best probably. We have sunny weather often, especially when really cold, which is when I need the extra power as well. I will be talking to my local hydro supplier to see what they need from their end. I now have basic information on government funding. My first barn hydro invoice came in at over $400 for two months, and it has not been real cold yet. Won't take long to pay for upgrades that significantly reduce these charges.

 

[tonycrow]

Yes, heating water is one of the biggest energy uses. I will check that out as well, and thanks!

 

[tonycrow]

I have looked at LED lighting, but as certain areas of my barn have very high ceilings, not sure the light output would be sufficient. I don't mind the cost so much as the savings would start as soon as they are installed. I am going to replace the incandescents in the lower roofed parts of the barn to start. Thanks!

 

[MikeFarm]

Hiya

As someone suggested use solar hot water heating for the water troughs. Split your requirements into things that need electrical power like lights and pumps and things that need heating like water. Solar water heating panels are much cheaper than solar photovoltaic panels that produce electricity. The main complexity in your case in the solar heating is to not have hot water in the troughs. You might need to use a heat exchanger to take heat from the hot water from the panels to the troughs. In fact with such a low temp requirement you might be able to make panels your self - a black painted metal surface with metal tubes soft soldered on the reverse side. Pipes go to a storage tank and then return. Arrange angle and height so you get thermo-syphoning of water from panel to your storage tank.

Mike

 

[Sinecure]

I am not sure where your compost/manure pile is relative to the barn, but you could look at doing some type of geothermal using the compost/manure pile to heat your water.

There are a couple of good videos on Youtube about people doing this for their hot water needs. Basically just 100 or so feet of black poly pipe circulating through the compost pile. Some have even run the pipe through a concrete slab that holds the compost pile and essentially built a reverse radiant heat source.

 

[tonycrow]

A very good suggestion. Thanks!