Grinding Sound !! - Dealer Says NORMAL

[Soundguy]

The old Ford 650 probably was 25 hp. .

More like about 33 pto hp. That 25 hp is the drawbar hp.

Soundguy

 

[MoyockHeel]

Update - Summarized. NH rep visited. The tractor's lift systems (3PH and FEL) made a terrible whining noise, upon start-up, with him and a service tech feeling under it, etc., and while he was operating it. He experienced the grinding noise, 1-2 min. after he started driving the tractor. Two short grinds, then one longer one. He operated the tractor for 30-45 min. It did not make the noise again. (This follows a pattern previously noticed and captured on tape. If it makes a lift noise and lifts slowly, the grinding noise will occur shortly afterward. If the lifts operate ok at start up, then the grinding noise will occur after an extended period of operation.)

NH rep wants to change to a cold weather fluid. He indicated he didn't hear the noise on the tape, which I have now shown to several people, all of which have no problem hearing the noise. I don't know why thinking a cold weather fluid will cure the problem. It started making the noise in July in NC, in 90-95 degree weather.

The tractor has now made the noise in Hi/turtle, Hi/Rabbit,, 4X2, and 4X4, in reverse and in forward. It made the noise when I pedaled from forward to reverse. I have not spent time enough in Lo/turtle and Lo/Rabbit, yet.

As for the $100 worth of fuel. Diesel cost $2.70 here, two tanks is 26 gallons, do the math, it knocks out a big part of $100 when you consider the cost of retrieving the fuel, etc. There is absolutely no fun in this process, and ther's no doubt that I've spent that much on trying to diagnose the noise. I'd estimate almost one-half of the 40 hours on the tractor have been spent trying to get the noise on tape, mowing grass that doesn't need mowing, riding long distnaces to retrieve buckets of dirt.

The old tractor had no where near 30 HP when I had it. It may have had that brand new, but it was well used when I got it and the cylinder compression was nil when I got rid of it.

 

[Doc_Bob]

As for the $100 worth of fuel. Diesel cost $2.70 here, two tanks is 26 gallons, do the math, it knocks out a big part of $100 when you consider the cost of retrieving the fuel, etc. There is absolutely no fun in this process, .

Understood.
Bob

 

[Dusty]

.........NH rep wants to change to a cold weather fluid. He indicated he didn't hear the noise on the tape, which I have now shown to several people, all of which have no problem hearing the noise. I don't know why thinking a cold weather fluid will cure the problem. It started making the noise in July in NC, in 90-95 degree weather.

He can't hear it on the tape, because he doesn't want to hear it. He wants to change the oil, because he has no idea what is wrong with the tractor. If he changes it to a cold weather fluid, ask him what he is going to do with it next summer when warm weather comes back. I would start documenting everything, because to me, the NH rep sounds more like a snake oil salesman, than an experienced technical representative of the company. I would also push the problem further up the line to the company. He is hoping to mask the problem, not resolve it. I would be pushing for assurances in writing that he acknowledges that there is a problem, and that they will resolve the problem, no matter how long it takes. My guess is he is hoping to get it quiet enough for the tractor to run out of warranty, and then it will be your problem.
Dusty

 

[MoyockHeel]

Dusty, I have a statement signed by the dealer service rep. It says:"This document is to be placed in the permanent file for this tractor at XXX XXX, Inc. This is to document the defect complaints listed below, prior to expiration of the warranty. Additionally, a video tape documenting the issues was submitted." I signed/dated a copy, and the dealer service rep signed/dated a copy. He kept one and I have one. The document is a log of most everything that has happened, including phone conversations, dates, and hours on the tractor when the events occurred.

I am willing to be patient, but after originally asking for the tractor to be fixed, I have changed my position. I have asked for the tractor to be replaced, with a new one, one that is not exhibiting the noises and lift problems I am seeing. (The NH rep attempted to demonstrate that the noise was normal by setting the parking brake and then pushing the forward pedal on a tractor that was on the dealer lot. The noise it made was similar, but not exactly like the grinding I hear. He intimated that the noise was due to the cruise control magnet vibrating, due to the vibration in the hydraulic system vibrating, and therefore nromal.) I found it peculiar that my tractor did not make the noise when he attempted the same procedure on mine. I told him when they replaced my tractor, I would not accept the one on the lot that had made that noise, and will test for it before I accept another tractor.

I fully do not expect the change in fluid to make any difference. I'll let them do it, but if there are future hydraulic system issues, beyond warranty expiration, I have asked that those items be repaired, essentially extending the warranty, forever... Beyond continuing to document, etc., do you have any other ideas that I can consider to help get a new tractor? I beleive there is a defect in this tractor's hydraulic pump or motor. I have a hard time accepting this tractor being split apart to repair/renew those items and feeling confident the tractor will be as good as a new one from the factory. The noise started at 14.4 hours. The NH rep agreed there was no indication of abuse on my part.

I guess I'll have to request a change back to the higher temperature fluid when March rolls around....

Thanks for your input.

 

[IH3444]

I'm very sorry to read about this problem with the whinning hydrotransmission. I would have thought that the factory rep would have just said, yep, there is a unatural noise from the trans, we seldom if ever hear that, we will swap out the tractor, or even just a new hydro unit with your. We want our customers happy, and not posting on a tractor web about our possible failures. The "cold weather" fluid I'm sure is their either synthetic, or semi-synthetic fluid which is known to quiet down the hydro unit whines. If you search for post about the owners who changed the fliud in their hydro tractors to amsoil full synthetic fluid, one of the improvements they state is usually less hydro noise. It is possible that this noise could just be a noise and the machine go on for 30 years with it, it's just that for piece of mind I understand your concern. Documenting is wise, but getting a dealer to then act upon it is another thing. There are higher authorities that you can bring this issue to, and hopefully they can assist you in resolving this with either your dealer or NH. I fell that both the dealer and the NH rep is just biding time until the machine is out of warrenty. The best of luck to you and your tractor, the NHs are great machines, but a hydro with grinding noise is a real concern.

 

[MoyockHeel]

Thanks IH. I am fine with the whining noise that the HST makes. The noises I am talking about make that whine sound like sweet music. The 3PH and FEL lifts make a HOOOOONKing, deeper "whine", especially in the area of the HST control pedals, when the lift control levers are manipulated (with fairly severe shaking/vibration that is visible on the triangular hazard warning sign on the back of the tractor as it waves back and forth!) until the fluid warms up. There is also a ringing/jingling noise on the right lower side, that is noticeable when the lift noise is heard. It too subsides when the fluid warms up. The grinding noise is just like if you lowered your grader blade on a paved surface and proceeded to try to take a layer of it off, at a fast pace. It's intermittent, and unpredictable. Thanks for your input.

 

[dqdave1]

Did I read in a prevous post that CNH was training a new rep for your area. If so; ask for another rep with experience to come and look. Does the "lemon" law apply? It might be worth a trip to an attorney to review what you have done; what the dealer has done and what your options are. Sometimes, a letter from council helps speed up remedies.

 

[IH3444]

There is no noise with my three point hitch on my TC48. It is almost silent, so this tells me that something might be amiss with yours. Have you looked into any type off lemon laws in your state, or thought to write to your better bussiness bureau.If that grinding sound is like a blade onto gravel, that is without question unacceptable, and the dealer rep should instruct the dealer to swap out that hydro trans for another. I wouldn't be worried about the motor-trans split at a dealer. Should be as good as new. That grinding is way overboard..........I'm really disappointed in the NH rep.

 

[Dusty]

Before you can get another tractor, I believe that you have to at least allow them to try the fix the machine. Each time that they try and fail, makes your request for a replacement stronger. Most lemon laws require at least 3 tries to remedy the problem. I also don't believe that tractors fall into the lemon law area in most states. If you financed the machine, you might have some recourse through that avenue. I don't know exactly where to find the reference, but if you have financed it, you can stop making payments if the machine is defective, until it is repaired. This might be federal law, or it might have been state law. I remember hearing about it, but it was a while ago and I don't remember the details. If it is financed, then ask the lien holder. I believe that they have to be honest with you, even if they might not like the outcome of the conversation.
Dusty