Grinding Sound !! - Dealer Says NORMAL

[whitetiger]

When the race spun in the bore, did it ruin the case, or were you able to press another race in? My worry would be that if it spun once, then it might not hold the new race any better. I know that they make a Loctite product to remedy this problem, but don't know how well it works in the long run.
Dusty

I cleaned up the case with brake clean, treated the race mount areas with Loctite primer then Loctite on new bearing for reassembly. The bore was not wallowed out but the bearing was slip fit in to housing. I am not sure if it is supposed to be slip fit or interference fit.
We thought the noise was hyd to start with but the tractor only made the noise when it was moving. The hyd & hydro worked fine.

 

[Dusty]

What gave you that idea?

Dusty is always right.

I believe that it is part of The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I also know that when my Ford's transmission failed a week out of warranty, that it was replaced because they had the car in for other warranty service for more that a month waiting for parts. I was told by the dealer that the warranty was extended as a result of the loss of use of the vehicle. It might have been state law, or a Ford Corporate policy, I just can't say. I tried to find it doing a Google search, but was unable to locate it.

I did find this information that might be helpful......

TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 50 > § 2304

§ 2304. Federal minimum standards for warranties

(4) if the product (or a component part thereof) contains a defect or malfunction after a reasonable number of attempts by the warrantor to remedy defects or malfunctions in such product, such warrantor must permit the consumer to elect either a refund for, or replacement without charge of, such product or part (as the case may be). The Commission may by rule specify for purposes of this paragraph, what constitutes a reasonable number of attempts to remedy particular kinds of defects or malfunctions under different circumstances. If the warrantor replaces a component part of a consumer product, such replacement shall include installing the part in the product without charge.

 

[MoyockHeel]

Jinman, Soundguy, BobRip, Dusty, IH344, Birdman, Whitetiger, et al. You folks have all been very nice in spending time replying to my "plight". Thanks everyone. I am very appreciative.

As I spend time on this ordeal, I also get a chance to reflect on the bigger picture, and the wealth of knowledge that is made available to me, the common man, via the internet. Bless you, Al Gore.... Seriously though, flashes of the big picture do bounce around my head, when I have to recognize them, I guess.

Jinman, I'll ask around about the gauge you suggest. Some of my farmer friends may have what you refer to, and let me borrow one. I sort of hope I won't be in continuous need for one, but $50 bucks is not too much to invest, either. I'll look at the procedure you suggest. I'll probably need a little guidance when it comes down to where to install the gauge, like which FEL connection, if it matters, etc. I assume you mean to simply attach a quick-disconnect fitting to the gauge, (without teflon tape, I believe I read on a previous thread) and plug it in one of the color coded sockets. Sounds almost too easy, and makes me wonder why the dealer hasn't thought of it.

The NH rep did mention restriction, and I assumed from an improperly operating valve, check-valve, or a bad o-ring. I didn't really think about a foreign object actually blocking an inlet. But a restriction could be anything, I suppose. I am afraid of the long term damages that could be occurring due to restriction/starvation, if that causes scoring, etc. The work that Soundguy is talking about is definitely beyond my current skill level, and I expect that to be performed by a service guy. I'd rather not have major surgery done to this tractor. It's BRAND NEW, and that's the gist of this issue.

The response I get from the dealer and NH rep are exactly as you describe, very careful and deliberately non-committal. I have to ask what is the next step, instead of hearing, this is what we plan to do. That bugs me. I want to hear a plan of action, not me having to pry out the next step. This is why I ask for a new tractor. They're waiting for me to suggest something less, like in a negotiation, so I'm not going in with a low ball offer.

Dusty, the information you've provided is right on the money. The legalities of my situation have become a lot more clear, and I have the documents I need to back me up. I discussed my choice of several attorneys with some folks yesterday, and will begin the process of having a letter drafted from one of them, shortly. The mangnuson-moss document and referrals are dead nuts on what I was looking for, in the legal area. Thanks.

BobRip, EXCELLENT advice. I have mentioned a loaner, but will definitely demand one from now on. The idea of sharing the financial burden will keep the tractor from sitting in their back 40 the next time it's in their shop.

IH3444, the rep told me the type fluid he was ordering, but in my mind-racing state of negotiating the next step in this process, the only number I remember him saying was 20. I think there was some more numbers like 2022 and an impressive sounding name like, 2022 ambra hydrothiswillfixyourchit. It wasn't the answer I wanted to hear, and I didn't write it down. They're supposed to come here and change out the fluid, but no time frame was specified, so I'll be calling them on it, tomorrow.... I guess I need to video tape all conversations with these guys. Then when they don't hear the noises that are plainly there, I can have a second opinion. (The NH rep also said he couldn't hear the grinding "too good" when he was operating it. The service tech and I both heard it and we were 150-200 feet away!)

Whitetiger, I will check the level in the sensi-trac clutch. Funny thing that it has not been mentioned, as a source of the noise, or as a fluid that according to the dealer should be changed, but wasn't, at 50 hours. Thanks, I'll look at it later today.

Another thing I just remembered. The NH rep manipulated the hydraulic diverter valve when the lifts were moaning, etc. He didn't say what he found, but I remember him turning it with a large screwdriver. It didn't make the moaning stop or change the lifts' performance.

Again, thanks to all for contributing your vast wealth of knowledge. I'll keep you apprised of any significant events, related to the tractor, at least! I hope everyone has a nice day!!

 

[jinman]

Jinman, I'll ask around about the gauge you suggest. Some of my farmer friends may have what you refer to, and let me borrow one. I sort of hope I won't be in continuous need for one, but $50 bucks is not too much to invest, either. I'll look at the procedure you suggest. I'll probably need a little guidance when it comes down to where to install the gauge, like which FEL connection, if it matters, etc. I assume you mean to simply attach a quick-disconnect fitting to the gauge, (without teflon tape, I believe I read on a previous thread) and plug it in one of the color coded sockets. Sounds almost too easy, and makes me wonder why the dealer hasn't thought of it.

Once you have the gage rigged to read pressure, it is a very simple task. It takes a male adapter and fittings like the ones going to your FEL. You can use either the lift or curl connections. I'd recommend disconnecting both hoses while you do the test. Just move your joystick in the direction of the circuit where you are testing and you will be able to read the system pressure. I have rear remotes on my tractor, and that is what I use.

I'd put the engine rpm up around 1500 so you get good response from the hydraulic pump. If your pump is weak or the pressure is erratic, you should see it on the gage. If it is normal, you should see a solid 2500 psi when you move the joystick. Also, when you release the joystick, you can see how fast the pressure drops back to 0 psi. Before you attempt to remove the gage, shut off the engine and wiggle the joystick to relieve pressure.

I'm just suggesting this because you said you are having problems with the lift and FEL not having enough power. Since putting a maximum measured load on the 3PH or FEL may be hard to achieve and/or prove, the gage pressure could show at least whether the pump can achieve its proper static pressure. Be aware that the problem might only be evident under dynamic load movements and the static pressure may read fine.

You mentioned that the noise seems to be coming from under the operator's platform in the area of the transmission. On your tractor on the right hand side, there is a diverter valve that diverts fluid between the 3PH and the FEL in priority demand with the 3PH having highest priority (I think). That diverter also is where the system relief valve is installed. If it were making noise, that would sure sound like the transmission. Of course, you would not have to be moving for this to make noise. I believe you said that you were always moving when the noise was being generated, so this source would be unlikely.

I hope you realize that much of what I mention is just "brainstorming" possibilities. Trying to troubleshoot a problem from just a description is nearly impossible. When you can see or feel a problem, a lot of intuition comes into play that just cannot be had from a verbal description. I'd love to get my hands on your tractor, but that's not possible. Just don't put too much faith in my assessment of your problem. It's just my "educated" guessing.

 

[MoyockHeel]

Thanks, Jinman. I'll definitely look into gauging the pressure on the FEL. The NH rep turned the diverter valve, but didn't mention any change. The lift moan comes from that area.

Also, the grinding noise is more evident on the right side. I've had it continue to make the grinding noise when I was not in motion only once, and that was just last week. (an indication that it's getting worse??) I was in Hi/turtle and it continued to grind during the brief period between moving forward to pedaling to reverse. I'd have to say the grinding and jingling noises come from the area just in front of or below the HST control pedals, but more so on the right side of the machine than the left. This realization only occurred since video taping and noticing the noise was more evident on the playback when I had the camera in my right hand.

I understand and appreciate your efforts to brainstorm this, as well as the difficulties related to using this forum to do so. Everything written is more info than what I had going into this. At least I don't feel like I should be smiling and accepting this as "normal", as I was told to do.

 

[jk96]

Just wondering if you were ever able to figure out the problem. Haven't heard anything lately.

 

[MoyockHeel]

Latest Update. Thanks for keeping interested, JK.

After leaving a message on NH rep's phone on 12/22/06 asking for them to let me know when the hyd. fluid was to be replaced, and indicating my disappointment that the rep said he could not hear the noise on my tape, or when he operated the tractor, I had not received any call back. I was sort of seeing how long they would go before responding, but as expected, they would probably wait three years, until the warranty ran out!
This is typical of how this has been handled. I know there was the whole Xmas New Years thing, but dang....

So, I called the rep on Friday, 1/5/07 at 1:00 pm and left a message that I'd like to know the status of their changing the fluid. He returned my call at 4:00 pm. He apologized for not returning my call (2 WEEKS without responding). I was calm and did not complain about the lack of response or contact. He said he has arranged for the dealer to perform a hydraulic system study on 1/15/07. I plan on speaking to his boss regarding the lack of response, and his plan on addressing the issue, on Monday morning.

Now back to the tractor, I used it yesterday...it worked perfectly. No grinding, no moaning or shaking when the lifts were operated, perfect. That is the nature of my problem, intermittent. I can see it now. They'll keep it for a month, stored out in their yard, and return it to me because it wouldn't display the problems I've documented.

 

[SOS]

Just reading through this chain as I'm planning on buying an 45a this week and wnated to see the problems occuring out there. I am concerned as one of the key reasons I'm going with a NH tractor is warrany and local service. Are there anyother threads discussing this?

As for a few of the comments above, please consider the following:

1. DO NOT STOP PAYMENT. This is like saying two wrongs make a right and the financial institution will get their money or your tractor.

2. Have you escalated above the dealer? Use a certified letter or package to present the problem to NH corportate.

3. Have you documented your proposed solution? tell them what you expect them to do, for example: provide a free loaner tractor while this problem is being resolved, replace the tractor, clear explanation of what the problem is, and/or replace the transmission, etc... Show a hardship and costs to you without the tractor. You have given them reasible time to correct it and now its your turn to take over control of the problem resolution!

Basically, you have started the documentation process but you have not made it enough of annoyance to them to do anything other than tinker with your tractor. They need to know that you are serious about fixing the problem now and that you are in the process of escallating to outside parties.

I'm in the engineering and customer support industry and I deal with attorneys almost daily and problems do not get their needed attention until they are impacting other business efforts like sales, my ability to get work done, and public opinion.

 

[jk96]

SOS,

I would venture to say that the service is most likely dealer specific and not NH standard. I currently own my second case, first a dx24, now a dx33 and service from my dealer has been excellent. My 33 was even purchased from another dealer 2 hours away, and the service from my local dealer is still top notch. Repairs have been minor (busted hydrolic hose, leaking line, etc.) but have been addressed quickly. Last time I took my 33 in for the 50 hour service was on a Monday. The shop mechanic asked how soon I needed it back, I told him no hurry, I planned on mowing on Thursday but it could wait. He called Wed morning to let me know it was ready. The owner of the dealership has even called on occasion when he's going to be in my area to see if I needed any service done and to let me know he could pick it up if so. I've taken him up on the offer once.

jk

 

[jk96]

By the way, in case anyone is wondering why I didn't by local, (seems to be a heated topic here on TBN), the dealer I bought my 33 from was a very good customer of my business. I found out he owned a case dealership only after I bought my first tractor, dx24. He noticed it in the shop one day and mentioned he was a dealer if I ever needed anything. Didn't think it would be to good if he later noticed a new dx33 in the shop. He also beat my local price by about 2K.

jk