GST vs HST?

[TORQUIN]

First of all, I don't own a Kubota yet. I am trying to decide between trannies right now. I am planning on an L3830 with 4 in 1 FEL and BH. I currently own a 1964 Ford 4000 diesel that has 52 or 55 hp, no FEL, BH or PS.
At the dealer, I test drove a 4330 with HST and no FEL, and a 3830 with FST. The dealer does not have a GST in stock right now, but will call me when he does so I can test drive it.
The HST on the 4330, even with 43 hp, seemed weak in high range. It felt weaker than the FST on the 3830, even though the 3830 has less HP.
My aunt just purchased a 3130 with FEL, which I also test drove. My test consisted of what could the tractor do all out in high range. The HST seems to be robbing RPM from the engine like crazy, where the FST does not. I pushed the pedal all the way down (and nearly stalled it) and got up to whatever speed, increased the throttle to full, but it seemed like it was underpowered. When I let off the Go pedal, the RPM jumped WAY up.
Maybe this is just me, and being used to the higher HP of my Ford 4000. I know that I'm not going to be racing the tractor, but when I want to get from point A to point B, such as getting to the actual "job site", I expect the tractor to be able to get up and go. The HST doesn't seem to have the go needed.
I'd like to hear other's impressions of this.
I'm not looking for a tranny war, just opinions so I can figure out if I am overestimating what I expect from these tractors, or too "HP spoiled" by my truck.

Thanks,
Chris
--------------
99 Dodge Ram 2500, QC, Cummins with twin turbos. Best ET 14.50.

 

[Chechnya]

I highly suggest GST. The best part is the clutchless shifts while moving. I have a speed for everything like number 1-2 for scooping dirt and 7-8 for driving. With HST you have 2-3 speeds only but GST gives you more control over what you are doing.

 

[TORQUIN]

While I have not driven the GST yet, I am leaning that way since the dealer tells me the GST is just like the FST, except you can shift gears without the clutch. This sounds good to me, especially since the GST does not have different ranges, just 12 speeds, period, and all accessible with the same lever. I also like the froward and reverse, same speed, on the steering column.
Other things I didn't like about the HST is having to use the "cruise control" in order to do a zero-radius turn by using the brakes independently, and not having a foot control for the throttle.
My aunt loves the HST, but I think part of that is she doesn't know any better, and doesn't miss the power, plus she doesn't mind going slow so doesn't see the power loss in high range. The area she is using it in is not as large as mine so she doesn't have as far to go, which may also contribute to her satisfaction.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[txdon]

TORQUIN, today while mowing for the first time with HST, reconfirmed my opinion that HST - IS FOR ME. Everyone has different priority task for their tractor. Since I do a lot of work that requires reverse-forward-reverse-forward such as mowing - backing under trees, backing into large brush, backing up the dam and front end loader work with lots of backing, My body is twisted back wards a lot and with one hand on the ROPS (as I'm turned around) and one on the steering wheel is it so nice to be able to do all the shifting with one foot. As far as speed, heck I can't even get up to the 3rd range because my land is so rough so that is the least of my priorities. 1st range for loader work, 2nd range for mowing works so good for me. Get the tractor that fits the jobs you do the most. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Steve_Miller]

I don't own a HST yet but am going this way soon. I currently own a Kubota B7200DT. As far as I understand your explaination, don't get me wrong (I'm not trying to put you down or anything like that) , but you have to understand the difference between a Glide shift and an HST tranny, maybe you do, but from your explanation you don't completely understand how to utilize an HST. I've only test driven an HST so far, but I've put all my fears behind me after driving a NH TC24DA. I asked questions here before I test drove and read previous posts on HST tractors. You have to get used to the power curves which are quite a bit different than a geared tranny.
Did you put the glide shift in high gear and put the accelerator the mat like you explained you did on the HST? If so, did the tractor spin the wheels and take off, or did it bog down until the tractor picked up speed and took off once it got into its power curve? On an HST the rpm's have to be fairly high and you have to ease the hydro pedal down slowly until the tractor gains speed in order to get the torque required from the hydro pump. Similarly on a geared tranny you start in low gear and work your way up as speed builds up. I may have some of my explainations screwed up but I'm sure someone will correct me sooner or later as there is more than enough intelligent people on this forum.
Again I'm not trying to start anything or by no means do I think I'm a tractor expert but I don't think you gave the HST the credit it deserves compared to an HST.

Thanks Steve

 

[JerryG]

Chris,
I noticed the way, that you said you pushed the peddle all the way down. With a hydro, you have to gradually press the pedal down. The farther the pedal is down, the higher gear it equates to. If you have been used to your Ford, then you will really happy with a GST. Good Luck getting a new tractor and welcome to TBN.

 

[grandad]

Ditto the comment JerryG made about using a hydro tranny.

Most of the "experts" say there is only a 1-2% efficiency loss in the hydro vs. a gear drive. For most typical uses of a compact tractor, that's not very significant and is outweighed by the advantages offered.

Think of the thing as a continuously variable transmission. The harder you push the pedal, the less gear reduction you are using, with less torque and higher rpm going to the drive train. To get maximum torque you do just the opposite... you feather the pedal so there is just a little forward speed. That is counter-intuitive if you are thinking of it as the accelerator pedal.

If you expect to do lots of FEL work, take a second look at HST. Once you get the hang of it, it's hard to beat with the FEL.

Having said all that, the GST is also a good choice, although it probably won't get you from A to B any faster than the hydro. It's your tractor... get the one you like the best and enjoy!

 

[TORQUIN]

No offense taken from anyone. That's why I posted, so if I am wrong, someone can set me straight. I really don't want to regret the decision I finally make, which is why I am posting here before I buy the thing and have to post on here "What's wrong with my tranny?", or "Wish I had gotten an HST".
I have not driven a GST yet, The dealer did not have one is stock. I have driven a 4330 HST with no FEL, a 3830 FST with FEL, and a 3130 HST with FEL. I liked the power of the FST best.
I am readin your responses and I will test drive the HST again when the dealer calls me (he is supposed to when he gets a GST available for me to test drive).

Thanks for all of your insights. This might just end of being a preference thing for me, but I am trying to keep an open mind here.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Shy_guy0324]

I looked at this thread ( GST vs HST ) and I thought this was going to be a discussion on the Goods and Services Tax vs the Harmonized Sales Tax!!!

With all the acronyms these days, its hard shifting gears between every meaning for the same acronym!!

HAHAHA

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

BTW: in Canada GST is a Federal sales tax, while the HST is a combined GST with the PST (Provincial Sales Tax) /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[FlynG]

I have an L3710 GST, love it. For my usage, the GST was the best compromise. I like having a clutch for some work in the barn. I find that most of the time though I hardly ever touch the clutch. Especially mowing with the BH. I just bump up and back mostly in 3rd and 4th gear. I have never owned an HST but have used a couple at work. I just never liked them, but then all of my highway vehicles are manual transmissions too.

 

[RayH]

I test drove all three (FST, GST, HST) before I bought and ended up with the GST. The only advantage I saw in the GST was that it didnt have ranges. It is 1-12, slow-fast, just like that. No stopping to change from L range to H range and back to L range. I can push the loader into a pile of dirt in 3rd gear, backup and zip down through the yard in 8th gear, slow back down to 2nd gear to dump it, go back up to 8th gear on the trip back, never touch the clutch and the closest thing to a stop is when I shuttle between forward and reverse.
If it werent for the lack of ranges on the GST, I probably would have gotten the HST because I do alot of loader and back and forth work.

 

[Bucky4]

Hey Ray,

When you slow down from 8th to 2nd, or any other fast to slow speed, do you go directly from the fast speed to slow or do you gradually slow down by changing them one at a time until you get to the desired speed?

I leave skid marks if I go directly from fast to slow.

bucky4

 

[RayH]

I slow gradually and make sure my speed is what it should be for the gear Im choosing before I actually change gears. Sometimes Im on the brake a little just to take up some momentum and slow faster. When Im going up from a low gear to a higher one I will let off the throttle a little during the gear change. The clutch doesnt seem to slip as much and it shifts smoother. Its hard for me to get used to not using the clutch pedal, alot of the time I still do. Its such a habit that I have to make a conscience decision not to use it.
At first I wasnt at all impressed with the GST and thought I had made a huge mistake. I do alot of work on hillsides (West Virginia and all) and it took me a while to figure out how to feather the brake some while making gear changes going up or down hill to keep from momentarily rolling out of control. Its like the same learning curve as driving a stick shift car. Once you figure it out you dont realize what was so hard about it.

 

[art]

I don't know why you would need a good high gear road crusier with the pick-up you have, I would think that would be my choice for road work. The plus of a hydro is it's ability to work in close quarters with out clutch work or shifting. This leaves both hands on the wheel for steering or on the loader control for easier manuverability.

 

[Bucky4]

The standard GST tranny (12 fwd/8 rev) is not good if you plan to use any implement that requires super slow ground speeds. (tiller, soil cultivator, Harley rake, etc.)

I've just demo'd three rotary landscape implements recently (reports are forthcoming) and none of them work well with the standard GST.

With the PTO at normal operating speed, about 540 rpms, the tractor ground speed is too fast (~ 1 mph) to do much more than just skim the surface. Repetitive clutching or shuttle shifting, a.k.a. stopping & starting, is required if you want to really chew up some dirt in the least amount of passes.

Although clutching & shuttle shifting do work, they undoubtedly put undue wear on the gear engaging system and would not be my choice for performing the task. The HST or GST with creeper gears would be much more advantageous for these applications.

Just my $.02. Good luck with your decision.

bucky4

 

[Rainbow6]

I have a L3010 w/ GST, its great.

 

[icat]

I went with the HST because it works very well for my intended usage and the terrain on my land. I'll also agree with the others that pushing the pedal to the floor on an HST is very counter productive. The thing to keep in mind is that it is NOT a gas pedal (more like a diesel pedal). And that's hard to do until you get use to the way it works. The best part of the HST for me is the lightning quick direction changes you can make. It's also a heck of a lot easier to work when all you have to do is ride. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
If I want to shift and go fast I'll fire up the sports car in the garage. When I'm working I want to be as efficient as possible. By the way, I've had mine up to 17mph on the road and that was VERY scary. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[retiredsquid]

I went with the L3130 with FST and the only time I feel the HST would have served me better is when I am using the cultivator in my garden. If I did not run the garden with the contour of the hillside it would probably be a mout point.

I'd also have gone with at least a 40hp rig, too.
Rich

 

[texbaylea]

icat:
I am very close to buying an L3130HST. I am very interested your dealer experience. Did you buy from the Houston dealer or another? I have a quote from that dealer plus another closer to me: the Houston dealer is 85 miles away over 95% freeway roads, the closer one is 35 miles over a rough, narrow tertiary road thus my dilemma.

Vernon

 

[cisco]

Ah yes, we've been through this issue - before - for years. Anyhow, Kubota (see web site re. stats of current and prior models) lists differences in pto of gst vs. hst of various models as about 5-6%. Folks have other opinions, but I've seen nothing that definatively refutes Kubota data, so ....
HST is the most convenient, and if you don't need every last bit of pto, get it. That said, if you mostly need straight runs (like a farmer plowing the "back forty"), HST is not cost effective (purchase price and upkeep of hydro), or particularly useful. For a compromise between a strictly gear tractor, and HST convenience, some choose GST. It ain't perfect (I darn near renounced GST last weekend when I had to make a billion forward/reverse switches while distributing dirt from a large pile), for multiple reasons - do not try to shift the gst on a steep grade - for a short while you're in neutral.
I got a GST because I didn't want to scar up the lawn areas of my property with an overly heavy tractor, yet I needed every last bit of pto to run a decent sized brush cutter when I first cleared the property. In addition, most of my work now is just running around 7.5 acres trimming weeds, with few reverses or speed changes - so, GST suffices.
So, what will you habitually do with your tractor (usual tasks)? Answer that, and the gear change issue will clear up.