Tractor Sizing GUIDE: Shopping/Sizing A Tractor (Development version)

[kirkawilson]

Tractor Mike videos can also be helpful for prospective/new/experienced tractor owners.
Home Page- Intro to the Site- Ask Tractor Mike- Ozark, MO

 

[jeff9366]

What to do?

Almost identical to my setup/needs. Ford 8n/2-WD didn't give up on me though - I gave up on it. Slipped out of gear and ran down my hills one time too many!
I looked at lots of manufacturers and ended up with a Branson 3725 hst. Ran a spreadsheet with all the specs and Branson was the clear winner for me. I put at tires on it and spread the rest wheels. I didn't fill the tires.
Used the loader all weekend with 5' bush hog for ballast.
Bush hogging was so much faster and less stress than with the 8n.

Safe hillside operation requires four wheel drive (4-WD). Tractors have brakes only on the rear wheels. When going down hill, tractor weight distribution shifts forward, decreasing rear tire grip. With 4-WD engaged tractor feigns four wheel braking. Without 4-WD engaged, on a steep slope, an uncontrolled descent may occur.

 

[majorwager]

Jeff,
Think you may have missed TomIre's point. If No ONE is sitting in operator seat, and proper brakes NOT applied, the number of driving axles is not likely to matter. And he should Never have purchased a tractor until the new buying guide was completed.


Moss makes salient point. Another, and another, and another new guide is less helpful that supplementing existing attempts, UNLESS, as suggested, whole exercise is EGO driven? Video tutorials are MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE, and not as boring. Some posts induce unscheduled naps.

In post 1, jeff claims weight increases of 50% and 100% provide measurable results. Weight is important but QUESTION the scientific evidence for these claims??.
In tasks such as mowing, significant member task, mowing w/ excessive WT. can actually be a determent. Again, match tractor to task, NOT blind specifications.

Jeff also claims tractor, ROPS down won't fit in garage. Question how many folks store tractor in attached house garage? Not the barn/outbuilding, the garage.
MY MX, largest of the compacts, fits in a 7 ft garage opening, ROPS down. Speculation is NOT FACT.

EDIT: To LS 125 below, very well thought out and expressed. Thank you. A guide that arrogantly intimidates, and ignores specific needs/situations, and budgets while focusing upon only the larger & heavier segment of tractors, simply eclipses a whole segment of the buying public. Fortunately Kubota and others recognize this collection of folks by providing the equipment to meet and satisfy that need. Likely the same folks that defer the purchase of a 400 hp automobile.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I'm NOT disagreeing with any of the information presented here, only that it is sometimes it is directed or presented in such a way depicting that it is the only correct answer. Example: someone comes on asking what SCUT they should get. They state they are only using it for routine maintenance, landscape work, etc.., on flat ground. They state their budget is very limited. Even so, they are immediately directed to get a bigger, better heavier tractor.

This may not be the intent of the author or of the thread, but it comes across that if you can't get that bigger tractor, you're just not going to get the work done, you're going to break the tractor, and you WILL be disappointed. A lot of people new to tractors come here for advice, confused at best, over the substantial information they have already gathered. It's easy to tell someone how to spend their money, but not everyone has the same checkbook!

I have operated large equipment (earthmovers, bulldozers), medium equipment (full size BH, excavators), and smaller equipment (skid-steers, CUTS, and SCUTS). I know what these pieces of equipment can do, a lot of people coming here for advice do not, for sure.

I have used my SCUT to dig and install a septic system, grade a building site, cut in a driveway, spread hundreds of tons of driveway stone (both base and top stone), dug over a 1000' of trenches, moved materials, and cut grass on my 5 acres, and my neighbors 5 acres (also cleaning manure out of her horse stalls, grading corrals, etc..). She can't afford nor operate a tractor. I have done a tremendous amount of work with my SCUT. At times, while doing some of the heavier work, I would think: ' I should have gotten a bigger tractor'....then MY reality kicks in.....
That bigger, better, badder, heavier tractor would do the same thing, MAYBE a little faster, MAYBE a little easier, DEFINATELY more expensive!

Due to circumstances that previously occurred (some my fault, mostly not), We literally had to start our family's life all over. I was tractorless for 25 years and either contracted work out, rented POS equipment (at a high price), did it by hand, or didn't do it.
Now, I could afford to get a small tractor (SCUT), but definately not anything larger, not even the next size up. I am very, very, impressed with the capabilities of my SCUT. Will it move that pile of H..S... in just 3 bucket loads? No. But it will move it in 10 bucket loads....so the point of me writing all of this...

My wife and I read probably 80% of the posts / threads on TBN on a daily basis. We have both learned a lot more about tractors. When we read a new post about someone thinking about a new tractor, well, here is where I think a problem lies....
The wife will probably never drive or operate the tractor. She will assist in some of the maintainance, but will never do it on her own. She will never research a tractor problem. She is still learning though. Just like a lot of new tractor owners.

So....as soon as she reads anything SLIGHTLY related to this thread or author... she instantly moves on to another thread. You don't want hear what is said about it...definately can't write it here. Unfortunately, I too, have began to dismiss this information due to how it is presented. I think this has also caused some new people to ignore some truely valuable information.

To sum it up...If someone is looking for a SCUT...help them decide on a SCUT. If they need to lift large round bales...help them decide what tractor is strong enough for the task. I will NEVER have to lift a round bale...I don't need a tractor capable of doing that. I needed a BH, so I got one that I could afford. It has done a lot of work, and has saved me at least 70% of cost of hiring the work out (then being able to apply that savings to the tractor cost).
I purchased my tractor before joining TBN. If I came here and read this thread and the opinions posted (as they are presented), I would probably not have bought my SCUT out of fear of it not being capable of anything besides mowing grass, which is clearly not the case. Would I buy a SCUT again...you betcha! Would I buy a bigger tractor if my needs reflected it? sure.

Bottom line: one size (bigger, badder, better, heavier) doesn't fit all, not all needs, not all budgets, not all users. I can use a screwdriver, small screwgun, or a 1/2" drill to put in a screw....same end result. Just as everyone's opinions can vary, the information needs to be presented in a non-prejudiced, unbiased, helpful manner. Just IMHO.

 

[ThirdMan]

Bottom line: one size (bigger, badder, better, heavier) doesn't fit all, not all needs, not all budgets, not all users. I can use a screwdriver, small screwgun, or a 1/2" drill to put in a screw....same end result. Just as everyone's opinions can vary, the information needs to be presented in a non-prejudiced, unbiased, helpful manner. Just IMHO.

I have often seen it pointed out that going up a size only costs $1,000 or so per step, but that is not then end of the story. A bigger tractor attaches to bigger more expensive equipment. I was in the position of looking at $5,000+ mowers for my need and realizing that a small tractor that would do so much more was in reach. I have the need for something that could dig, but from reading on TBN I was pretty convinced to not buy a BH because I would be spending $5,000+ on something that would be sub-optimal vs renting a mini-ex for much less. My wife and I do tractor work on nights and weekends as we can and renting and blocking out time is a huge hassle with caring for young kids. The BH on a SCUT was just over $3,000 extra and does what we need. It can do all the things that LS mt125 owner says and have no regret about what we purchased. I talked with my wife about this thread last night and she does not want a bigger tractor (she actually puts more hours on the clock then I do). Not all tractor owner needs are the same and TBN users correctly ask new users what tasks they have.

Hill work is something that I still don't think I have read a good description for new users. We have a small section of slope by the road that I measured from about 20° to 30°. We mow on this. We are not doing loader work on this hill. My wife mows up and down with a MMM in 4wd. A SCUT does have lower ground clearance, but it also has a lower center of gravity. The statement that more weight is more stable on a hill is not true when comparing a Kubota BX to a Kubota B series. The MMM also adds 280 lbs of weight on the ground right under the tractor when mowing on a hill.

 

[jeff9366]

Good tractors last forever.

There is no way when we bought our first tractor 40+ years ago that I thought I'd still own it today....I would have just laughed. The future is never-ever-land and nothing lasts that long..... does it? A tractor was crazy-stretching the budget in the first place, and since I was adament about buying top quality, then only the most basic model was ever in the running.

Well, I was wrong about most of the future. But at least we were half right on the tractor. It's still here and it's been a joy. With no offense ever to that wonderful tractor, if I had any idea how much a part of our life it would be, we sure would have found some way to put a few more features on it as well as a bit more size.
rScotty

Another opinion.

My first tractor was a high hour Deere/Yanmar 750/Gear without a Loader, 1,900 pounds, bare tractor. I may have been the fourth or fifth owner. Deere had been used commercially by at least one Tree Service. I put 400 engine hours on the Deere, learning the basics. Good tractor but too light for my work and no Loader. (I retain a lot of respect for Yanmar products.)

I wanted a Loader on my next tractor. Visited my local Kubota dealer and there was a shining new Kubota B3300SU/HST factory tractor-loader package, with bigger wheels and HST ~~ I bought it for $17,200 during February 2012. The B3300SU weighed 1,929 pounds, bare tractor, and had FEL LA504, with 1,100 lift capacity. I had not discovered T-B-N nor 'tractordata.com' at time of B3300SU contemplation.

The B3300SU was more useful than the Deere 750 in my woods work, but using the FEL I had the rear wheels off the ground often, a hazardous condition. I sold the B3300SU after about 400 engine hours and bought my current Kubota L3560/HST/PLUS, with FEL LA805, 3,500 pounds bare tractor weight. ($27,500) NIRVANA!

The intermediate B3300SU and it's several implements was a costly financial decision, perhaps $6,000 in needless depreciation. I should have transitioned from the Deere 750 directly to the Kubota L3560; but I did not know what information to evaluate to make that decision.

I encourage others to make financially sound, operationally safe tractor decisions using bare tractor weight in the decision process. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.



I have some operating experience with a Kubota BX2230 and two 50-horsepower, 2-WD John Deere's, one a Deere/Georgia shuttle shift the second a Deere/India 2 X 4 clutch and gear. Six tractors in diverse weights, often discussed on T-B-N.

 

[Rock Crawler]

Another opinion.

My first tractor was a high hour Deere 750/Gear without a Loader. I may have been the fourth or fifth owner. It has been used commercially by at least one Tree Service. I put about 400 engine hours on this tractor, learning the basics.

I knew I wanted a Loader on my next tractor. Visited by local Kubota dealer six miles away and there was a new Kubota B3300SU/HST factory tractor-loader package. Shine, new, LOADER, factory-package ~~ I bought it for $17,200 during February 2012. The B3300SU weighed 1,929 pounds and had FEL LA504, with 1,100 lift capacity.

I had not discovered T-B-N at time of B3300SU purchase. The B3300SU was much more useful than the Deere 750 in my woods work, but with the FEL I had the rear wheels off the ground too often. I sold the B3300SU after about 400 engine hours and bought my current Kubota L3560/HST/PLUS, 3,500 pounds bare tractor weight. NIRVANA!

The intermittent B3300SU and it implements was not a good decision, financially nor operationally. I should have transitioned from the Deere 750 directly to the Kubota L3560.

I encourage others to make good, financially sound tractor decisions using bare tractor weight in the decision making process. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

If this helps, bueno. If not, ignore.

Interesting to read that. On that B3350SU, did you have tires filled and weight out back? I have the little brother to your 3350, the B2650 but with the newer generation and stronger loader. I also tweaked the pressure up a bit past the max recommended to gain even more loader power. With my loaded tires and an implement hanging out the rear I can just barely, slowly and in total control lift the rear. Typically it's lifting one tire and I can easily feel it happening, but it's not often. And trust me, I challenge this loader 6 days a week moving large and heavy concrete.

I just find it interesting that you saw such a contrasting situation with what was essentially the same machine.

 

[jeff9366]

It was not a B3350SU. It was a B3300SUHSDP. Tires inflated with air. I run over irrigated lawns in an upscale, rural residential community every operating day.

{B2650 = 2,293 bare tractor.}



Kubota B3300SU
2010 -
Compact Utility tractor

Manufacturer: Kubota
Original price (USD): $18,580 (2011)

Kubota B3300SU Engine:
Kubota 1.5L 4-cyl diesel
Engine (gross): 33 hp [24.6 kW]
PTO (claimed): 25 hp [18.6 kW]

Capacity:
Fuel: 8.1 gal [30.7 L]

3-Point Hitch:
Rear Type: I
Rear lift (at ends): 1,786 lbs [810 kg]
Rear lift (at 24"/610mm): 1,400 lbs [635 kg]

Power Take-off (PTO):
Rear PTO: live
Rear RPM: 540 (1.375)
Engine RPM: 540@2600

Dimensions & Tires:
Wheelbase: 66.8 inches [169 cm]
Weight: 1,930 lbs [875 kg]
Front tire: 7-12
Rear tire: 12.4-16

Kubota B3300SU attachments:
front-end loader
backhoe

Mechanical:
Chassis: 4x4 MFWD 4WD
Differential lock: rear standard
Steering: power
Brakes: wet disc
Two-post ROPS. Optional sunshade.

Page information:
Last update: April 27, 2015
Copyright: Copyright 2016 TractorData LLC
Contact: Peter@TractorData.com

 

[jeff9366]

Suggested revisions to Working Draft 7 are WELCOME.

WORKING DRAFT (7)​

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine bare tractor weight needed to safely accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor chassis weight is more important for most tractor operations than increased tractor horsepower. Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, bare tractor weight must increase 50% before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to five flat acres. "Residential tractors" will enter a typical residential garage with 84" door height.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a heavier tractor you eat more depreciation on implements than on the tractor. Dealing with multiple implement browsers is a pain. ((Ask me how I know.))



Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires increase ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking and disturbance when passing over rough pasture and woodland.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than level land operation. Tractors optimized for hill work have liquid installed in the rear tires rather than air. "Loaded" tires are filled 50% to 75% with liquid, which lowers the tractor's center-of-gravity, increasing rollover resistance. "Loading" two compact tractor rear tires will increase tractor weight 300 pounds to 800 pounds over weight of identical two tires inflated with air.

Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads reduce tractor lateral instability.

Safe hillside operation requires four wheel drive (4-WD). Tractors have brakes only on the rear wheels. When going down hill, tractor weight distribution shifts forward, decreasing rear tire grip. With 4-WD engaged tractor feigns four wheel braking. Without 4-WD engaged, on a steep slope, an uncontrolled descent may occur.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you must pay. Most tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit through an 84" height garage door, even with ROPS folded.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Almost every new tractor is delivered with a glitch or two that requires correction. My Kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment. Dealer proximity is less important to those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[majorwager]

jeffy,
Again with the weight fixation. Owned and operated many different classifications of tractors over the years while managing 55 acres of woodlands and 110 acres of productive farmland.

This "guide" complety ignores the financial aspects of a tractor purchase while discounting the very viable and suitable applications for the smaller compacts and subcompacts. The "buy enough tractor" mantra may easily be supplanted with "why purchase too much tractor".

Tractors in the 2000 lb category are most capable machines and should not be ignored. Realize that tasks shall arise occasionally that even the largest compacts will lack the capability to safely tackle.

Subscribe to the theory that most tractor purchases are NOT a necessity. Further, folks with the financial means to make such a purchase are generally intelligent and capable of making reasonable assessments of their needs.

Guidance from forums can be helpful when impartial and objective. When assistance is biased and skewed toward a specific objective, the message becomes diluted and confusing.

Not minimizing the importance of daily or weekly task assessment, applications abound in some cases for larger machines. By the same and equal token, lawn mowing, annual rototilling, occasional driveway maintenance, firewood gathering, rotary cutting, snow removal, etc. are general tasks that Do Not require a $50K kubota L6060 tractor/cab.

There are no absolutes, acreage is a factor, but the cookie cutter excel spreadsheet formulas are simply melodramatic at best. Weight the opinions from numerous sources, and as noted, identify the biases and potential objectivity in EACH.


Best advice is make a decision based upon the intuition that has brought you success in other life ventures, like home and auto , and investment purchases.

Remember, no one on this forum or any other will assume ANY liablity if their advice produces an unsatisfactory result.

EDIT: Read the enlightenment dedicated in post 114, a heartfelt rendition of tractor owning facts. Post 115 also applicable.