Guns! - I promised (yes it's rural related..)

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

Doc'sKnot . . . the whole point of the Mag-Safe and the Glaser Safety Slugs are that they ARE the most WICKED things that you can get hit with.

They ALSO will not over penetrate which is why you see them so often used INSIDE houses. Miss the bad guy, you won't punch a hole through 3 rooms before the bullet stops.

Don't get me wrong, I love a big heavy slug too. But if you ever see a wound cavity from a 230 grain JHP traveling at 850 feet per second (which is typicaly of a 45 ACP round) and you compare that to the wound cavity of a 45 ACP Mag-Safe or Glaser you WILL BE IMPRESSED by them. The traditional jacketed hollow point rounds leave a pretty small hole with minimal tissue damage except right around the bullet path. The Mag-Safe and the Glaser punch a little hole but then almost explode in a funnel shape spreading shrapnel all over the inside of a body cavity.

 

[TresCrows]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

I recommend a good revolver in a double action 357 as well for non gun people.
I have shot the new 357 Sig and it is very impressive. It or the 40 S&W would be my choice in a Glock or similar auto pistol. J

 

[Docsknotinn]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

I have never seen theese or even ever heard of them before this strand. My situation is probably a bit different than many others here with no one else in any other rooms. I am not really dissagreeing with any one I personally just dont see trying to make a home defense weapon PC. I mean its a serious step with serious consequences. In that situation to be very honest, residual damage is the very least of my concerns. They make this great white foam stuff now that is virtually idiot proof to patch drywall /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[RobertN]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

I like my Glock-30 .45acp. It handles well. Isn't the some kind of .45acp based 357 Corbon or something out too?

I REALLY like the semi-custom carry .45 I built based on a Para-Ordnence 13+1 frame, till UPS stole it, I mean lost it in shipping, a couple years ago.

 

[Docsknotinn]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

Arent the Para's SA only ? Im a Da fan, Cocked, Locked and ready to Rock /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

Docs... Isn't a DA that is cocked by default a DA in SA mode?

I'm sure there are lots of designs I'm not familiar with, but the DA guns I am aware of have a really heavy first pull, typically in the 12 to 15 pound range required to pull back the hammer, each subsequent shot is then fired in SA mode with a trigger pull in the 2 to 5 pound range.

(I realize the above description is not totally accurate for striker fired weapons that don't have a traditional hammer, nor is it accurate some of the unusual designs like the H&K P7 which is cocked by squeezing the front grip and then striker fired, but generally would apply to most DA semi-autos)

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

OkeeDon, I'm not trying to pick on you but something interesting happened this week in Federal Court. The 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals (San Franscisco, CA) ruled on something that you might be interested in.

Your words . . . <font color="purple"> Here's my solution: Let anyone buy and own any weapons they want. Register all purchases. Then, if that weapon is ever used, by anyone, in any circumstances, at any time, whether still in the possession of the original owner or not, to commit a crime, then the original owner bears the same penalty as the person who used the gun. Because, if the gun had never been purchased from the manufacturer in the first place, it wouldn't be available for misuse. That is the ultimate responsibility of gun ownership.


...Don

</font>

What makes your concept ring so clearly in my ears this week is the ruling in the Federal Court. It seems that the suit, ILETO v. GLOCK, seeks to blame Glock and other for the horrendous criminal actions of a deranged white supermacist Buford Furrow. In 1999, Furrow shot and killed postal workd Joseph Ileto, and wounded 3 chidren at a Jewish day care center in California. The Glock pistol used by Furrow was originally sold to a police department, which subsequetnly sold it to a licensed dealer, who in turn sold it to a collector, who finally sold it to Furrow.

Now if we are to hold the original owner responsible for the crime, or at least have them bear the same penalty, then I suppose we need to sentence that police department to life in prison???

Anyway, the 9th Circuit Court reinstated the wrongful death suit this week. This is the most overturned court in the nation, and this suit will no doubt be tossed out of court again, as it has been previously.

 

[r0GuE]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

Leaning VERY heavily toward the HK P7e now. So of course they no longer import them (new at least). I am looking for a NIB or as close to it as I can find. Any ideas of on-line resources I can use in my search.

 

[Docsknotinn]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

I guess I'm a little stumped on the "cocked by default " statement. In my opinion the answer is no. Simply put I would not bother with a gun that was cocked by default. I dont know where you get a trigger pull like that but good god man with 12-15 # of pull it belongs in the trash can unless you are a active duty officer with a beefed up trigger on a glock so you dont shoot your own weiner schnitzel off /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif lol. I have always had high grade guns and there certaily is a wide range of quality out there. Even the Para ordinance SA I have shot have not had a trigger pull any where near that. My kimber is FAR lighter than that on the first shot. Perhaps 8#. There is no pull back the hammer thats the whole point of Cocked and locked. Just drop the thumb safety and squeeze the grip safety. Some of what you are referring to is a SA/DA which is far more common in wheel guns as far as I know. For on line resources on a used guns look at www.gunsamerica.com

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Guns! - I promised (yes it\'s rural related..)

DocsKnot . . . I think we are both confused by each other but we each probably know what we thought we said, or something like that!

A typical DA revolver has a trigger pull, when NOT cocked, of about 12 to 15 pounds.

A typical DA/SA semi-auto has a first shot trigger pull of about 12 to 15 pounds when NOT cocked.

A typical DA/SA semi-auto, WHEN COCKED, has a trigger pull of 3 to 5 pounds. But THAT is a SA trigger pull. So a DA/SA that is "cocked, locked and ready to rock" is in SA mode, which is what I meant when I said it is by default, a SA trigger weight. I was certainly not very clear when I originally wrote it, which is probably where some of the confusion came from.

A typical SA semi-auto has a trigger pull of 3 to 5 pounds.

Those pulls are very typical as they come from the factory, mainly for liability purposes. Custom shops and gunsmiths will drop the pulls to under 2 pounds on target guns, but those are SA trigger pulls. You can get them down to OUNCES but those are considered "hair" triggers and generally considered dangerous and certainly not suitable for a defensive arm.

Most people simply do not believe that trigger pulls are as heavy as they are when they come from the factory, but they are pretty darn heavy. Striker fired weapons, such as Glocks and the HK P7, are in between, but definately on the lighter end of the sprectrum. There are gauges for measuring trigger pull, I used to have one, but I regularily surprised people when I measured their trigger pulls. Most people thought their 1911's were in the ounces, they were often 4 or 5 pounds. DA Revolvers are pretty brutal and require lots of force, but again, 15# is fairly normal.

And those are high quality Smiths, Colts, Safari Arms, etc . .