Happiness is...

[RobertN]

You're sure getting a nice long ferment

It is still going! I remember having long ferments with this. Part of it is the weather is cooling off; we're just putting on a sweater or sweatshirt instead of heating right now. It's a little cool for the fermentation.

 

[dmccarty]

HomeBrew2,

What are you going to do with the gallon of cider once it has ferminted? Put it in bottles?

I found an orchard 30 minutes or so away from the house. This weekend or next I want to go visit them but I will call them first. I'm hoping they have cider.

There is a brew store, or at least there used to be, near work. I saw your recipie and I'm going to go to the links provided as well. I guess the only thing I really need is a 5 gallon jug, bottles, air lock, etc. That sounds like the cheapest way to start. I have been wanting to brew beer for over a decade but never had time and space. Cider just sounds like something I can do somewhat quick.

My big question is does drinking hard cider count as a Fruit on the Food Pyramid or whatever it is these days?

Later,
Dan

 

[RobertN]

I guess the only thing I really need is a 5 gallon jug, bottles, air lock, etc.

My big question is does drinking hard cider count as a Fruit on the Food Pyramid or whatever it is these days?

I would be careful using a 5gal carboy with an air lock for primary fermentation. If you brew 5 gallons, cider, beer etc, it will most likely blow stuff through the airlock. In my 6.5gal carboys, it is not uncommon to have a couple inches of foamy krausen buildup. When I have had to use a 5gal carboy, I always used a blowoff tube, directed in to a bucket with some bleachy water in it. It's still an air lock, just a different approach.

Otherwise, yes it is just the basic equipment. If you rack the cider right after fermentation and refriderate it, you could have a noncarbonated drink. It would have to be consumed soonly though. Otherwise, I would bottle it, using a bottling sugar for a little fizz.

Since beer is just liquid bread, hard cider should count as a fruit

 

[HomeBrew2]

Dan,

I don't bottle in the classic sense. (I simply refused to even consider that process when I started brewing ... too much tedious work for me.) I keg beer in 5 gal stainless soda kegs and force carbonate. For this little batch of cider, I'll probably rack it into 2 liter [plastic] soda bottles. I'm not a big fan of carbonation but if my girlfriend wants, I may force carbonate the cider in the plastic bottles. (Yes, I drill and bolt brass schrader valves to the plastic bottle caps for this purpose.)

As far as supplies: Not sure what "etc" includes but, I would suggest using yeast.
I probably should have used some yeast nutrient but didn't think of it. It's cheap, you might want to use it.
You probably have some clear plastic tubing around the shop ... you'll need it for racking.
I very strongly recommend getting some sanitizer concentrate. I really like StarSan. It's oderless, tasteless, colorless, and does not have to be rinsed off before using your equipment. Sanitize everything used in the process. (note: this is sanitizing not sterilizing.)
Just a final thought: From what Robert said and the very little research I have done on hard cider, without the addition of sugar and/or apple concentrate, the cider may be quite low on apple flavor and sweetness, if so, that exactly what I'M looking for as I don't like sweet stuff much. I gather most other folks like more sweet and appley flavor. Again, I don't know, just what I've gathered.
Cheers!

 

[dmccarty]

Do you keep the soda kegs cold?

The last frenzy of brewing research I did a few months ago talked about the soda kegs. That was a new to me from when I was reading years ago. One of turn offs about home brewing was bottling. Just sound like too much work, fuss, and mess.

I don't like sweet ciders. I found Hornsby(sp) at the store and its much better than the other ciders I have had in the past. Still a bit sweet but not overpowering. From my first reading pass on cider, it seems like sugar was not added. You got what you needed from the apples. And the apples where picked, in both senses of the word, for the sugar content among other things for making cider.

I hope that brew store is still down the road.....

Thanks guys!
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

I subscribed to the brew digest and just found the Cat's Meow page.

Cat's Meow 11 -- Cider

Later,
Dan

 

[HomeBrew2]

Do you keep the soda kegs cold?...

Yes. Depending on the size frig (with all interior hardware removed) you can fit 4-6 kegs in there
Another alternative is half kegs (2.5-3 gal) so a shelf or 2 can be left in the frig.

 

[RobertN]

Do you keep the soda kegs cold?

Kegging is good, kegging is expensive... You need the keg, a regulator, taps, Co2, and a fridge of some sort to keep it in. It is really nice, because you only clean and sanitize one bottle. Those small apartment refridgerators work nice; you can put one or two corny kegs in there, and put a tap on top. ~$100 for the fridge.

Bottling is a pain; you have to clean and sanitize all of them. Then squirt a little beer or cider in each one and cap. There are a few tricks though... Use champagne bottles. Most times I pour a beer for me and my wife, or guest. A champagne bottle holds enough for two tall pours. Also cuts bottling in half...

If you are just starting, bottling is a minor investment; a capper and a bag of caps are cheap. Bottling 5 gallons is not too terrible. I moved up to a 10gal all grain sysem a long time ago. Bottling 10gal of beer is a pain in the lower extremity.

Another thing to think about as you try a cider, is meade. My brother made a nice meade a few years ago. It was basically water, honey, and yeast. That stuff would literally knock your socks off!

Re: sweet vs not sweet; a lot of that is the yeast. An attenuative yeast will eat all the sugars, while a less attenuative yeast will leave some sugar and the resulting sweter flavor. You really have to look on the yeast chart to see.

My recipe calls for a TON of sugar. All of that brown sugar and Honey really adds a lot. Still, depending on the yeast will depend on how much gets eaten up and made in to alchohol.

 

[RobertN]

No prob, just curious. You're sure getting a nice long ferment

I thought about this some more. We have cooler temps, but I did not think about the honey. I have brewed a beer with honey in it before; it took a long time to ferment. I think the hony has a more complex sugar string which is harder to break down?

 

[dmccarty]

Yes. Depending on the size frig (with all interior hardware removed) you can fit 4-6 kegs in there
Another alternative is half kegs (2.5-3 gal) so a shelf or 2 can be left in the frig.

I don't think I'll be able to use the current fridge. Me thinks the wife would have something to say....

The small dorm fridge would work. We don't have any more room for a major appliance. But I could get a small fridge in the dining room. Well it will fit. Not sure what the Wifey is going to say.... It might also fit in the utility room....

I have had mead before. 20 years ago when I got interested in brewing I knew a guy who was a home brewer. I watched him brew one batch. And then we started to errrr, test, yeah that is it, test, previous batches. He had some mead that was really good and had a punch.

From what I have read I think I want to use the soda kegs. Except for the money issue. But it seems to be the way to go....

Later,
Dan

 

[HomeBrew2]

... Except for the money issue. ... Later,Dan

One can make kegging as expensive as one wants really.
Kegs should be found for ~$20 (may require cleaning and gaskets, cheap).
If you have a MIG welder, you have the pressure system. If not, you can naturally carbonate in a keg and use a CO2 bicycle tire inflator w/ food grade CO2 thingys to push the beer out ... it takes very little pressure. (This setup works great for travelling with your keg.)
I don't use "taps". I'm too cheap. I use the little plastic party taps ... ~$5.
As for refrigeration: The idea is to keep beer, etc cold ... that shouldn't be too tough to do in the winter without a frig
Again, though not stylish nor accepted in some social circles, 2 liter PET plastic bottles make great brew containers ... only 10 for 5 gal batch and they fit anywhere for storage.

 

[RobertN]

I only have one, but I did make a major score a few years ago... I have a 10gal corny keg! It was used as part of a portable eye wash station. Where the typical fittings were, there was a extension tube that went to the little eye wash shower heads. It was full of saline solution, and used Co2 to dispense.

I use the party taps too. It is nice though to have the regular tap...

My buddies used to have the brew store here in Folsom; they found some 2.5 gallon corny kegs... That was a while ago though.

 

[RobertN]

Kegs should be found for ~$20 (may require cleaning and gaskets, cheap).

These kegs were a little more expensive. Not sure if you saw this setup in an old thread here. My gravity feed system.

 

[HomeBrew2]

Very nice system Robert!!! I hadn't seen your's before but have seen some of Henro's. I'm strictly an extract brewer mostly due to laziness and attention span issues.

That 10G corny was indeed a score!
I used to buy kegs and parts from RCB Equip near Citrus Heights ... website shows he's in Kansas now (?)

 

[HomeBrew2]

OK, Robert, I'm impressed. Attached is a pic of my little cider maker. With the Nottingham yeast it blew quickly. As usual, I figgered it didn't do much. Wrong, as usual ... my FG (finished gravity) was 1.010. With an OG of 1.050, that's 40 points = 5.2% alchy !!! I shotgunned what I extracted for the measurement, maybe half a cup. Felt it in just few minutes (after many beers).
Ok, flavor: Minimal sweetness and minimal apple flavor ... perfect for me!!!
Nose: Slightly yeasty (@70°) ... but no yeast taste.
I'm all over this! Will have to see what girlfriend thinks before i get too serious about it

 

[RobertN]

Attached is a pic of my little cider maker. With the Nottingham yeast it blew quickly. . With an OG of 1.050, that's 40 points = 5.2% alchy !!! I shotgunned what I extracted for the measurement, maybe half a cup. Felt it in just few minutes (after many beers).

Nose: Slightly yeasty (@70°) ... but no yeast taste.

Remember, dont' worry, relax, have a homebrew... Get that in a few bottles and let it age a little; it should lose that yeasty character.

Mine is slowing down. It is fortified, and as I mentioned honey brews have just taken a long time to ferment for me. Complex sugar chains?

The cider is fun, since it is so much simpler than beer.

We have to do some tasting one of these days. I want to get a beer going in the next few weeks. I'm going to go with a 5gal batch though, just to get started back up again.

In regards to extract beer, and the picture of my setup, one thing I will note is I started doing full volume batches before I had this system in place. A propane burner with my modified keg worked well, and made things easier on the kitchen stove. I think the batches turned out better too. 5.5 gallons of wort boiling is an awesome sight, whether all grain or extract

 

[HomeBrew2]

Remember, dont' worry, relax, have a homebrew... Get that in a few bottles and let it age a little; it should lose that yeasty character.

"What, me worry?" Man, I don't see this brew lasting the weekend!!!

The cider is fun, since it is so much simpler than beer.

Yeh, I OWE YOU ! That was the easiest 5% I've heard of that tasted good

We have to do some tasting one of these days.

I'm in! I'll have to check w/ my BX but I think I can slip out when she's sleeping

In regards to extract beer,

Nothing I do is all that pretty or impressive but for the record, a few pix:
Pic 1 is my brew pot while chilling the wort. It's a Costco SS turkey fryer that I drilled a hole in near the bottom and brazed a cobbled faucet.
Pic 2 is a wild stout that had no respect for the blowoff system I made.
Pic 3 is kegging. A small mess but mostly under control.

Cheers!

 

[RobertN]

I have had a few fermentations blow like that. After one, I always made sure I had a pan under the blowoff bucket. It does make for a gooey sticky mess

I see you are doing a full gravity boil. Thats awesome. I was glad when I moved from the stove top. I had a friend in San Diego that got in to brewing. Him and his buddies did a bunch of beer on the stovetop; the concentrated heat of so many batches trashed the wiring inside the stove. They just were'nt made for over size pots and hours of heating/boiling wort.

I tried an expieriment a few years back. I had a wort chiller for 5gal. When I got my 10gal stuff set up, I got a bigger chiller. We tried putting the small chiller in an ice bath, and then running that cooled water through the chiller in the wort. I think it helped some, but not sure if it was worth the effort.

On my all grain system, I have done double batches. It takes a while to bring the mash water to temp, mash, and laughter. During that time, I have done an extract batch on the lower burner. Since I have a Cajun cooker/jet burner for the mash/laughter water, I'd fire it off first thing, and then run that direct to the lower keg. Only took a short time to have the extract batch running. Then, the all grain batch could start.

You would have like this... For my wedding we lined up two systems. We did two all grain batches AND an extract batch one each system. We brewed like 60gal of beer that day! Used to be 5 of us had systems like this. We always talked about getting all 5 together and doing a 150gal day, but alas, it never happened...

My setups look the same when they are running; controlled chaos

 

[HomeBrew2]

Oh, yes, always full gravity boilovers

A 60 gal brew for your wedding !?! Now I know I'm dating girls from the wrong part of the state ... umm, the only prob with that enterprise is that you can't drink it on the special day that you make it 'I am told' that there are other alternatives for producing and consuming beverages on such a special occasion

 

[HomeBrew2]

So, here's where we're at this week: My research indicated that buying cheap, pasturized apple juice [from concentrate] would produce rotten apple juice before it would produce fermented hard cider. WRONG! Attached is a pic of a racked batch that produced 4+% alc. The juice cost $1.89 for 96 oz. I'm in heaven ... and many thanks to you Robert. ...oh, pay no nevermind to the jug near the cider in the pic ... it's for "company" only