Hard Startup

[aeblank]

So I have a 2012 L3940. I've had it for a bit more than a year and a half.
It starts (hot, cold, whenever) after 2 "cranks" (assuming it's a complete revolution of the starter).

Suddenly, a few weeks ago, it would take 4 "cranks". This weekend it was even more (10 maybe, I dunno).
I get a big belch of white smoke. All subsequent starts are the normal 2 "cranks". It has to set a few hours to be harder to start again.

My fuel filter was replaced maybe 50 hours ago. Never had any fuel-station related issues.
My specific fuel is probably 2 or 3 months old, stored in a plastic can, inside. Again, not unusual or any past problems. As it gets colder, I've been wanting to use my supply up and get fresher stuff though.

I put some powerservice injector cleaner in. Haven't run much of it through yet, but I mixed it strong-ish in the tank.

I'm assuming one (or more?) of my injectors is weeping/leaking. Anybody agree?

Are my injectors clean-able? Should I just leave it and let the powerservice do its work?

Thanks.

 

[kcender]

Have you checked the glow plugs?

 

[aeblank]

Have you checked the glow plugs?

I haven't. I did think of that, so I tried cycling them twice on the first startup of the day. It made no difference.
I'm not sure if that's a valid "test", but that's what I did.

I can plug it in too, to see if it's time between starts or temperature at start. I believe it to be time related though.

 

[DK35vince]

Sounds more to me like a glow plug issue than injectors.
Bad glow plugs or not getting power to the glow plugs.

 

[aeblank]

Check resistance on them?
You know, after I *find* them.
Haven't had to before this.........

 

[aeblank]

Test of the night:
I plugged in my block heater for a few hours (4, I'm pretty sure).
It is 31F out, but not that bad in the garage. The glow plug light stayed on only very briefly.

Anyway, 100% normal 2 "cranks" to start.

Pretty definitive, if you ask me.

Can someone pass along the test procedure (resistances, I assume) of the glow plug(s)?
Once I find them, I'll make sure there is power going to them with a meter, of course.
Are there 4?

 

[aeblank]

Another Update........
Wife working late, so I snuck out and did a little troubleshooting.
I found the glow plugs, and hooked a meter to the supply (right at the first glow plug's ring terminal) and to ground.
Many GP cycling, and never any voltage reading. I'm about 90% confident in my setup (that I had good connection at the GP end).

Fuse or relay issue, I suppose.

I hear a very loud klank when cycling the key. I assumed it was the GP relay, but perhaps it's the fuel cutoff solenoid.

So anyway, now what?

 

[aeblank]

I'm talking to myself, but that's ok......

Based on the WSM (I bought it, lost it when my thumb drive crapped out, but luckily had the email with the download link, and it still worked).........
I'd guess that I have a relay issue. I've had the dash off to do auxiliary lighting and more recently, diverter wiring. My guess is that when I ran my diverter wiring up and over the dash (aux fuse block on left, diverter on right) I managed to pull a wire off the relay or loosen it such that vibration would take it out.

The wiring diagram (in the WSM) shows a glow plug fuse, but the operators manual doesn't list a glow plug fuse in the panel. So, I'm confused on that one. Can anyone clarify?

I won't have a chance to look at it until at least Thursday (curling two nights in a row!).

 

[The Fred]

Check that Kubota used the proper glow plug relay in the dash. On mine they did NOT and once I found the problem all is well.

Let me find the thread: Post #113

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/311706-i-still-hate-my-tractor-12.html


Regards and good luck fixing. It's a cheap fix.

Tractor running perfectly after 2nd year turbo and I beat it bad all Summer.

Remember I DO still hate my tractor!

Fred

 

[aeblank]

As I'm thinking back, this times out awfully well with my diverter install, which was in September(ish).
It wouldn't show very much (4 cranks vs 2 cranks) until cold (10+ cranks). I also know my wiring went up and over the dash, in that area.

Duly noted on the relay, though I don't think that's it. Had no problem for the first 1.75 years.
Glad to hear you still hate your tractor.

This one might be a free fix (or the cost of a relay, which is very near free) with the exception that I hurt a rib crawling around on it last night. DOH.
The glow plugs were surprisingly expensive at $28 each from Messicks. However, all this prompted me to re-check my oil change interval and I have more time than I thought. So anything I spent on this, i saved on oil/filter. Yeah, that's my story....

 

[DK35vince]

Check fuse, wiring, relay.
I don't have a Kubota, but my tractor has a timer for the glow plugs when you turn on the key.
My glow plugs quit a few years ago and I had a bad timer.

 

[kcender]

Did you check the connections on the relay?I had a similar problem when I had an L3240 and it was just a bad connection which was easily fixed.Good luck.

 

[aeblank]

So, I think I'm on to something.

In the attached picture, if I probe the large red wire, it is 12V always.
The large Black/Red wire (on the right) never goes hot...
It *should* be hot once the key is on and then go back to nothing when the GP light goes out, right?!
I also get about 0.5 ohms between the black wire here (at the relay) and the positive side of the glow plug.

Interestingly (FRED!!!!!), the terminals are huge on the socket, but not on the relay.
Also interestingly, the relay is definitely clicking. I just tested it on the bench, and it tests fine.

I guess I have a bad connection between the terminal and the socket. That seems *impossible* that taking the socket in/out multiple times would give me ZERO connection.

FRED--you said you replaced your relay with a Bosch. Any identifying marks or PN? I can pick one up tonight, but saying "I want one of these where these two terminals are "bigger"" just doesn't seem like fun.

I also checked all the fuses. All were fine. Again, the WSM's wiring diagram makes reference to a GP fuse, but I haven't the foggiest where it is.

Any advise?

 

[The Fred]

Somebody at the factory screwed up just like mine. Correct on your relay logic. The one that never goes hot is for the 4 glow plugs and if you ohm the wire you will get resistance on one glow plug times 4. Your glow plug fuse obviously is fine if you have power to the wire that you checked.

I work On Volvo cars for a living so I used Volvo #9494448. It's a VERY common relay in the auto industry. Most parts stores will stock the one you need. Make sure the relay you buy has an internal resistor to protect the device that controls it. Most do these days. Here's one that does.

V23134J0052X429 (1-1414147-0) Maxi Relay | Buy Online | Chief Enterprises

Check the relay next to it for the fuel shutoff solenoid I bet that's wrong also but draws so little amperage that is hasn't bothered yet.

Both mine were wrong.

Regards( and regrets for buying my Kubota), Fred

 

[aeblank]

Holy crikey. That's a spendy one.
I bought a couple on ebay.

If I ohm from that big black wire to ground, I should get 0.9/4 ohms (parallel resistors).

It still blows my mind that I'm not getting a connection on the output, despite the wrong tab size. I'll probably muck with the terminal and (hopefully) make connection with my stock relay. Then either open it up to swap them later, or wait for this to happen again.

Hopefully.........

 

[The Fred]

0.9 divided by 4.

I personally like to use an amp clamp. All you need to do is use your amp clamp around that big wire then jump the terminals 30 (battery) and 87 (load). I'm thinking they draw almost 80 amps and drop down fast as they warm up.

Regards, Fred

 

[aeblank]

I personally like to use an amp clamp.

Good point. I need to add one to my Christmas list.

 

[aeblank]

Just for closure.........

I have "the right" relays on order. They are used, but the Volvo ones that Fred used. New was like $38 and used was $5. I'm sure I could have digikey'd one up after calculating the load, knowing the socket type, measuring the terminal widths, etc. etc. So screw it, used is fine (likely has a rating of 10 million cycles).

EARLY this morning, I went out and bent the terminals (both big ones) a little bit with a screw driver. BINGO, voltage on the far side of the terminal. Also voltage at the GPs. Fired up after 2 "cranks".

The terminals are SORTA like this one except it's wider (probably a 280 series) and the "tongue" comes up from the bottom, instead of this one going down from the top. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that I bent that "tongue" out, as opposed to the "ears" in (like you would on a standard spade receptacle)..

Thanks for turning me to my GPs. I was entirely barking up the wrong tree. Solution was nicely priced, as well.

 

[The Fred]

Yes those Volvo relays were used for over 10 years and even though we replace them as a maintenance thing when doing electric throttle replacements and secondary air pumps I don't think I ever had one fail outright.

Glad you got it.

Fred

 

[aeblank]

Glad you got it.

It feels good to learn and understand the problem and solution, as opposed to just throwing parts at it. Extra sweet when it's free or cheap.

Similar item is the re-circulation door on our Dodge Charger.. Windows kept fogging up, regardless of AC use, etc. Come to find out the drive shaft breaks off the re-circulation damper. IIRC, it's one of those "you can't buy just that" type of deals. Anyway, the fix is a small screw and some 5 minute epoxy. Solution is reasonable and makes sense given the symptoms.

Obviously the internet makes these things awesome. I watched a youtube video on how to replace the headlight on our other car (Honda)......you know, THROUGH THE WHEEL WELL. Arg.