Hard Water

[dsb5610]

We installed the magnets in my mom's house. They were relatively cheap so we figured we didn't have much to lose. Didn't notice any difference. She now has a Culligan brine system that works ok but I wouldn't choose it.

I kept hoping there was an affordable, more permanent solution to our hard water problem without the use of a brine system but in researching I didn't discover one.

dsb

 

[Hammy]

I researched the heck out of water softeners and other alternatives but ended up with a Kinetico system. As mentioned before, they are expensive but I liked the fact that they use very little salt, are extremely efficient with the water when regeneration occurs, and they are metered not timed off of an electric unit. In other words, the system regenerates only when it is needed, not at a set time of day.

I was concerned about the brine ending up in my septic system so I ran it outside of my house and over the hillside. I have checked the discharge area several times in the last year and have noticed no ill effects. I was expecting a large buildup of salt but there is no visual buildup on the surface.

I can not taste any difference in the water.

I looked and looked for another way of going about it but in the end, this seemed to be the best system out there.

Craig

 

[scott_vt]

Good Mornin Wayne,
We have been plaqued with hard wate, high iron content, and high manganese levels for years at our Ct home. When I first built the house in 82 I had a system installed and it worked to some degree for many years and then it finally quit ! Two years ago I installed the system in the attachment. It is a CSI Signature system, andI have been using potassium chloride in it. I can also use salt in it with out really changing anything, but as another poster stated the potassium is better for you ! Its great for showering, drinking, laundry, fixtures etc... I would reccomend it. I believe it cost me about $1500.

If you have any other questions on it please feel free !

Sorry about the messy picture Im in the process of putting drainage on that side of my basement !

 

[chh]

I have been watching this thread, because I always wondered whether any of the electronic systems really worked. I installed a Whirlpool softener from Lowe's when we built out house. It will take salt or potassium chloride(I have only used salt) and it does a good job with our iron taste and hard water. At about $500 I think it is pretty good for the price. Just don't call Whirlpools customer service line with questions. They don't have a clue, but they do speak English.
I was worried about the salt in the septic also. I ran a line and dumped the flush water off the side of the hill also. I has not bothered the grass in that area at all.

 

[RayH]

Im always hesitant to mention that Ive used the magnets for about 12 years now. I was very skeptical of them but to this day, we still use them and have never considered getting a "real" water softener.
12 years we are still on the same waterheater element, second shower head, same coffee maker and the same dishwasher and we have no problem getting soap to suds up. We do get some scale but it cleans off easily.
I cant say for sure that the magnets are helping but I can say that we have hard water but none of the problems associated with it.
Something that needs to be understood is that the magnets dont take any of the "hardness" from the water. All they claim to do it change the molecular qualities of the iron, lyme or whatever is in your water, so that it doesnt stick to pipes and fixtures. What little bit Ive read and studied, it seems that the magnets break the molecules down so they dont clump together into scale. So they dont actually remove anything, they just change its properties so theres not as many problems with it.
As for water for a radiator, just use distilled water and not tap water no matter what kind of softener you have.

 

[450EXC]

I'm also a closet magnet user. I installed 2 sets about a month ago, so too soon to tell if they work on my system yet. For only $ 40.00 bucks it seemed worth a shot.

My only goal is to stop the buildup in the shower, water heater and coffee maker.

I had very poor flow/pressure in the shower and made some other repairs and replacements at the same time as installing the magnets. I solved the flow problem but think it was the repairs, not the magnets. Hopfully they will keep everthing working good from here on out.

 

[anthonyk]

Guys, I've seen stuff like for years and always sort of grimace.
Suffice it to say that I'm a a licensed engineer, who actuallly works for a water purufication/softening company, one of the largest in the world, and deal with this stuff every day. I'm not going to use this post as an endorsement for my company, but I'd like to clear up a few misconceptions.
First of all when people talk about "hard" water, they're usually referring to dissolved limestone. (There are other things too, such as various forms of iron but for this post we'll focus on the more common)
When limestone dissolves in your water (underground, then you pump it up) it becomes calcium carbonate and calcium and magnesium sulfate.
The calcium carbonate is the white grit that we're all familiar with. It's what ruins your family's water appliances. Faucets, shower heads, water heaters, and you'll see it in your ice dispenser tray if you've got one on your refrigerator door.
The calcium sulfate, however, behave completely differently because it reacts chemically with your soap products, and forms that soap scum you see on your bathtub walls. The problem is that you also leave it on your skin. That's what gives so many people dry skin. When people say "squeaky clean" they really don't understand that that is not clean. It's the grip that the scum leaves on your skin.

Now when you have a water softener, you REMOVE those compounds (actually you trade the ions of either sodium or potassium chloride for them when you backwash the softener) That's why with a properly functioning softener, you won't see that buildup in your appliances, and you'll actually feel like you CAN'T get the soap off. That's actually a good thing. What you're feeling are your own natural skin oils softening your skin. I know it drives some people nuts, because they swear the soap's not coming off, but trust me, it's not soap

Now, I've personally tested 5 differnt "magnetic" systems in our labs, just for fun, and I've noticed a few things. None of the systems that we tested worked, and NONE of them had seals of approval from the NSF or WQA (water quality association).
They don't claim to "soften the water". They claim, from what I've seen, to be able to magnetically " align" the domains in the calcium so that it doesn't stick to appliances. Well, that may be, but I doubt it, and if you guys who have them are seeing limestone deposits on your sinks and faucets, then that would seem to prove that they're not working.
Now, emprically, I have run TDS (total dissolved solids) tests on the water going into those systems, and the water coming out, and I can assure you, that it is exactly the same coming out as going in.
If the water was 10 grains (171.1ppm) going in, then it was still 10 grains coming out.
I'd like to point out, in fairness, that I've never cut open any piping to see if those systems are actually preventing buildup, so I can't say. If they are, the good and well, but they would still be better suited to say, an industrial application than a residential because if they're not REMOVING the calcium carbonate and especially the calcium sulfate, then you'll still have soap scum forming on your tubs, skin and hair, and your wife will probably have the same dry skin problems. In other words, they may be able to prevent buildup inside plumbing (I personally would like to see some sort of independent, licensed testing proving this, and an accurate engineering explanation of how), but they absolutely do NOT remove the compounds from the water as a standard Ion exchanging water softener will do.
About 15 years ago, I remember spending something like 30 bucks for a "magnetic fuel cracking" system that supposedly could increase fuel efficiency by some outrageous amount. That didn't work either. In fact, many of those companies have been investigated by AG's all over the US.
The phrase "buyer beware" comes to mind.

Sorry for the long post, and I certainly don't want to insult anyone's opinions or decisions, I just wanted to share my personal experiences and actual test findings. Hope it helps,

anthony

 

[Egon]

Guess your not in the market for some land??? Darned and I had a very nice piece picked out.

 

[LMTC]

Guys, I've seen stuff like for years and always sort of grimace.
Suffice it to say that I'm a a licensed engineer, who actuallly works for a water purufication/softening company, one of the largest in the world, and deal with this stuff every day. I'm not going to use this post as an endorsement for my company, but I'd like to clear up a few misconceptions.
First of all when people talk about "hard" water, they're usually referring to dissolved limestone. (There are other things too, such as various forms of iron but for this post we'll focus on the more common)
When limestone dissolves in your water (underground, then you pump it up) it becomes calcium carbonate and calcium and magnesium sulfate.
The calcium carbonate is the white grit that we're all familiar with. It's what ruins your family's water appliances. Faucets, shower heads, water heaters, and you'll see it in your ice dispenser tray if you've got one on your refrigerator door.
The calcium sulfate, however, behave completely differently because it reacts chemically with your soap products, and forms that soap scum you see on your bathtub walls. The problem is that you also leave it on your skin. That's what gives so many people dry skin. When people say "squeaky clean" they really don't understand that that is not clean. It's the grip that the scum leaves on your skin.

Now when you have a water softener, you REMOVE those compounds (actually you trade the ions of either sodium or potassium chloride for them when you backwash the softener) That's why with a properly functioning softener, you won't see that buildup in your appliances, and you'll actually feel like you CAN'T get the soap off. That's actually a good thing. What you're feeling are your own natural skin oils softening your skin. I know it drives some people nuts, because they swear the soap's not coming off, but trust me, it's not soap

Now, I've personally tested 5 differnt "magnetic" systems in our labs, just for fun, and I've noticed a few things. None of the systems that we tested worked, and NONE of them had seals of approval from the NSF or WQA (water quality association).
They don't claim to "soften the water". They claim, from what I've seen, to be able to magnetically " align" the domains in the calcium so that it doesn't stick to appliances. Well, that may be, but I doubt it, and if you guys who have them are seeing limestone deposits on your sinks and faucets, then that would seem to prove that they're not working.
Now, emprically, I have run TDS (total dissolved solids) tests on the water going into those systems, and the water coming out, and I can assure you, that it is exactly the same coming out as going in.
If the water was 10 grains (171.1ppm) going in, then it was still 10 grains coming out.
I'd like to point out, in fairness, that I've never cut open any piping to see if those systems are actually preventing buildup, so I can't say. If they are, the good and well, but they would still be better suited to say, an industrial application than a residential because if they're not REMOVING the calcium carbonate and especially the calcium sulfate, then you'll still have soap scum forming on your tubs, skin and hair, and your wife will probably have the same dry skin problems. In other words, they may be able to prevent buildup inside plumbing (I personally would like to see some sort of independent, licensed testing proving this, and an accurate engineering explanation of how), but they absolutely do NOT remove the compounds from the water as a standard Ion exchanging water softener will do.
About 15 years ago, I remember spending something like 30 bucks for a "magnetic fuel cracking" system that supposedly could increase fuel efficiency by some outrageous amount. That didn't work either. In fact, many of those companies have been investigated by AG's all over the US.
The phrase "buyer beware" comes to mind.

Sorry for the long post, and I certainly don't want to insult anyone's opinions or decisions, I just wanted to share my personal experiences and actual test findings. Hope it helps,

anthony

The best overall point you make, IMO, is that there is no definitive documentation, but rather anecdotal information. Many new technologies/inventions/discoveries were greeted in similar fashion. I've not seen any direct marketer of the magnetic devices claim that the TDS would be less....only that there would be less scale in the plumbing/appliances, and soap would lather better. I personally am not looking to remove the limestone components; I will be quite happy with reducing their impact on the plumbing.

I will say that I have had more private contacts re: this post than most of you can imagine, almost exclusively from folks saying that to their perception their magnetic devices make from moderate to dramatic improvement in the water by reducing scale, scum, etc. And every one of these people has asked me to keep the contact confidential because they have run into being demeaned for supposedly buying "snake oil" way too many times already (note posts on this thread already doing that). I will probably try the magnets, or make one as I can buy the comparable magnets for about half the price. As I said, I simply want to reduce the impact on the plumbing, and I really do not want a large salt-type system.

I do seriously thank everyone who replied, including the post I quoted, as I am sure your intent is to provide sincere information. I do feel the need to say I'm not sure what was provided by the posts. You got information to definitively debunk some information in the posts these folks have made, lay it out. Even a dozen doesn't blunt the sarcasm. Would you enjoy people posting remarks ridiculing your responses to someone's serious request?

 

[anthonyk]

okay, at the risk of repeating myself:

I've tested 5 systems, and none of them, once more for the skeptical, none, zip zero nada, removed calcium carbonate or limestone in any form. Period.
If you're not removing the calcium carbonate and calcium sulfate, then you are not going to get the benefits of a true water softener. I'll "lay it out" as you asked.
171.1 ppm in, 171.1 ppm out.

If you've got some sort of proof, chemically, mechanically or otherwise that these systems can do those things, I'd be more than happy to review it.
My purpose was not to denigrate the decisions of others, it was to provide a clear, analytical comparison, which is what the original posts did.

The purpose of the emoticons was to hopefully make clear that I was smiling when I was trying to make a point. I had no intention or reason to be sarcastic, and I'm surprised that you took it that way. I read the post several times, trying to make sure that it came across as intended, which was to be helpful, precisely because there is so much misinformation out there.

Now, rather than get into some sort of argument or debate, I'm signing off with a

Seriously guys, do whatever you feel is best for yourselves,

anthony