hardly ever weld welder

[arrow]

Currently, I have a 100 amp Century purchased many years ago. Granted I hardly use this machine but that may have something to do with how hard it is to use. (AC only, always sticks) I'm thinking I need something better but I have a couple of problems. First, I only have 10 gauge wire going to the service in the garage (100' run). Secondly, I've been told that I need an inverter or mig type welder as a result of the electrical weakness. I would like to rely on my generator if I could (5000 watt 20 volts) in a pinch. I would have bought the Hobart ac/dc machine and be done with it but people tell me I won't have sufficient power for it either with the generator or the garage wiring. I looked at the Northern 200 Mig/Stick inverter type welder for a bit over $600 but do not know enough about it and how good or miserable it is to use. (no reviews) Any enlightenment would be appreciated.

 

[schmism]

start with some welding classes at the local community college.

that will give you the skills and knowledge to then best decide what kind of welder will best fit your needs long term. (and what kind of upgrades to the power youll have to do)

 

[Western]

Can you move the welder closer to the main supply and try a weld there? basically get ride of the 100' run just to see if there is a major difference.

I have run a Hobart 120 handler (wire welder) for several years with a 5000 watt generator, I never had a lack of power, but again it was a 20 amp wire welder.

If you get a good result at the supply and you really don't weld very often, I would just weld there on occasion. Best thing would be to power up your shop with the right size supply line.

 

[arrow]

Can you move the welder closer to the main supply and try a weld there? basically get ride of the 100' run just to see if there is a major difference.

I have run a Hobart 120 handler (wire welder) for several years with a 5000 watt generator, I never had a lack of power, but again it was a 20 amp wire welder.

If you get a good result at the supply and you really don't weld very often, I would just weld there on occasion. Best thing would be to power up your shop with the right size supply line.

Well, there's the dryer socket in the cellar in line at about the 70' mark. That would be still a pain to start dragging the welder out to the bulkhead and getting a sufficient extension run to the socket every time I needed to weld (which is not alot but with a good welder, you never know where that would lead). Upgrading the garage would cost about $700 so I'm still looking for info about how much welder would work just the way it is now.. Obviously your 120 would but I'd like to get something a bit larger.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

deja vue ? Just had a big thread on this issue somewhere..

 

[2manyrocks]

A lot of very fine farm welding has been done with o/a outfits and no electricity needed.

 

[two_bit_score]

We are getting ready to buy a Miller Bobcat 225 or a Lincoln Ranger 225. Engine driven. We have a trailer to mount it on and the o/a bottles already mounted and a torch. Either one of those welders also has a 9000~ watt generator. If you already know you're going to use it for a long time go ahead and get one. If you need a MIG you can plug something like a Miller 211 into the generator. Some long leads and you don't have to do any wiring in your shop or garage to weld.

 

[dave1949]

We are getting ready to buy a Miller Bobcat 225 or a Lincoln Ranger 225. Engine driven. We have a trailer to mount it on and the o/a bottles already mounted and a torch. Either one of those welders also has a 9000~ watt generator. If you already know you're going to use it for a long time go ahead and get one. If you need a MIG you can plug something like a Miller 211 into the generator. Some long leads and you don't have to do any wiring in your shop or garage to weld.

That's the direction I was thinking too. I think, (somebody will know for sure), some of the Miller's with gas engine driven generator are actually very fine generators for back up power.

Maybe find a used unit and refurb it for your occassional use, plus it's a backup to your current generator.
Dave.

 

[two_bit_score]

That's the direction I was thinking too. I think, (somebody will know for sure), some of the Miller's with gas engine driven generator are actually very fine generators for back up power.

Maybe find a used unit and refurb it for your occassional use, plus it's a backup to your current generator.
Dave.

You are thinking the same way we were. We had an old Lincoln SA-200 on this trailer and thought one of these choices will give us room to put a nice compressor on there too. Plus the old Lincoln would only run tools made for DC so that left out almost anything we have now.

We just think this will work better than being tied to a shop. The generator is definately a big plus on these machines.

 

[arrow]

The suggestion of getting another generator /welder is getting more complexity into the situation. As usual, I'm not making myself clear. Using the generator out in the garage, would only be a last ditch effort if I could not run a regular line voltage welder of some type..

Buckeye, give me a clue as to what part of my question was previously discussed. Welder types? generator run? line voltage drops? Perhaps I can continue to search as I did before I posed the question with the correct search phrase. Otherwise, your post is not helpful.

Now for you electrician types. I am to understand that 10 gauge is 30 amp wire, At 220 volts, would 10awg wire be sufficient to run the Hobart 235/160 ac/dc welder with a dedicated 30 amp breaker or does this machine need a higher rated breaker?

 

[Skyco]

From Hobarts website-

Amps Input at Rated Output, 60 Hz 230 V: 47.5 A

so no a 30 amp breaker ain't gonna cut it..
They recommend a 50 amp breaker if time delay or 70 amp if a fuse.

Believe it or not Hobart actually has a website where one can look this stuff up

 

[KeithT]

I am not the electrician type but i have a little experience with this.

When I built my shop an electrician ran 270' of 4 gauge wire out to supply 100 amp service in my shop. they told me with the distance in reality i probably have about 60 amp service.

I have a miller 180 which is a 220V unit. It is on a 30 amp breaker and works great. I bought a 50' extension cord for the welder so I can use it anywhere in the shop and even out side. The ext cord was $100 and it is 8 ga wire.

If you are looking for something easy to use, you cant go wrong with a MIG IMO. The auto set 180 I am using is idiot proof (perfect for me). I look for things to do with it, and I have welded 5/16" to 22 gauge with good results.

Anytime there is a welding thread there is alway the "take a class advice", in a perfect world that would be great, but if you are just doing homeowner or farm type welding that seems to be overkill, and if I have to take a class to use a tool, I probably am not going to have it.

There will be a lot of people that tell you a mig is not a real welder capable of anything other that making crafts. I bought mine at a reputable welding supply stor. The man I dealt with has been welding for 25+ years. He said MIG welders "ruined" the welding trade. He said it made welding so easy, anyone could do it. I suspect that is where a lot of the venom toward MIGS comes from..... He sure recommended it to me and I am happy with it.

-Keith

 

[Western]

I am not the electrician type but i have a little experience with this.

When I built my shop an electrician ran 270' of 4 gauge wire out to supply 100 amp service in my shop. they told me with the distance in reality i probably have about 60 amp service.

I have a miller 180 which is a 220V unit. It is on a 30 amp breaker and works great. I bought a 50' extension cord for the welder so I can use it anywhere in the shop and even out side. The ext cord was $100 and it is 8 ga wire.

If you are looking for something easy to use, you cant go wrong with a MIG IMO. The auto set 180 I am using is idiot proof (perfect for me). I look for things to do with it, and I have welded 5/16" to 22 gauge with good results.

Anytime there is a welding thread there is alway the "take a class advice", in a perfect world that would be great, but if you are just doing homeowner or farm type welding that seems to be overkill, and if I have to take a class to use a tool, I probably am not going to have it.

There will be a lot of people that tell you a mig is not a real welder capable of anything other that making crafts. I bought mine at a reputable welding supply stor. The man I dealt with has been welding for 25+ years. He said MIG welders "ruined" the welding trade. He said it made welding so easy, anyone could do it. I suspect that is where a lot of the venom toward MIGS comes from..... He sure recommended it to me and I am happy with it.

-Keith

I agree, I have a Miller Bobcat 250 Stick and love it. I also have a Miller 185 wire and I wouldn't be afraid to weld something with either welder> I think it boils down to clean steel, concentrate on good penetration and being familiar with your equipment, most of the time you can "hear" when it starts to wonder on you..

I still think moving your welder closer to the supply and giving her a run, would speak volumes on whether you need a new machine and or more power at the shop, which I think you do, but it may would rule out any problems with the welder first at the power source.

 

[arrow]

Thanks Keith, your post is very useful. It seems migs are a different animal electricity draw wise as are inverters.

Skyco... I did go to Hobarts and as you can see, the specs given are for rated output. What happens if I am not using the welder at rated output? In other words, lets say I am at 140 or 160 ac or at 130 dc, what might be the amp draw and could I then use the generator to run the welder or plug in the welder to a 30 amp backed socket?? Would the machine trip the breaker on a 100' run of 10awg at these settings? I do not know enough about this stuff to configure a ratio believe it or not. I guess in cyber space, you can't see if I have a cabbage on top of these shoulders. Written info is just one resource. People with experience and know how is what I trust more and thus my motivation in posting on a forum that in most cases is populated by a great bunch of people.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

The suggestion of getting another generator /welder is getting more complexity into the situation. As usual, I'm not making myself clear. Using the generator out in the garage, would only be a last ditch effort if I could not run a regular line voltage welder of some type..

Buckeye, give me a clue as to what part of my question was previously discussed. Welder types? generator run? line voltage drops? Perhaps I can continue to search as I did before I posed the question with the correct search phrase. Otherwise, your post is not helpful.

Now for you electrician types. I am to understand that 10 gauge is 30 amp wire, At 220 volts, would 10awg wire be sufficient to run the Hobart 235/160 ac/dc welder with a dedicated 30 amp breaker or does this machine need a higher rated breaker?

Welding - I want to learn ..need advice. - Page 12 - TractorByNet.com

This thread was similar, debating AC, AC/DC welders vs Mig, lots of suggestions to take classes, etc. Didn't necessarily address running welder from a generator, but when the first response to your post was "take a class" it reminded me of this thread. No offense was meant to you or your question.

Regarding wiring, don't think you should run any AC/DC welder on 10 awg wire, but turn it down and you might be able to. Last one I wired was on a 60A circuit I think, was a long time ago, kind of forgot...

 

[emmy71]

I have the Hobart AC/DC Stickmate. According to the manual which I have attached, you can run this welder on 12 awg wire up to a distance of 87 feet with a 50 amp breaker due to the duty cycle of the welder (page 15). The outlet must be labeled welder only. Using the 10 awg wire you may get away with 100 feet. However, if anything else is on this circuit which if I understand correctly a dryer is and it is feeding everything in the garage, then this setup is not an option. I did not see this mentioned in the previous posts and this is not the way I would set up my welder, but I thought I would mention it. Had to compress file due to size. It is a PDF. Also attached is a screen shot of page 15.

Terry

 

[buckeyefarmer]

NEC 630.11 shows derating table based upon the duty factor of the welder to be used in determining wiring size.

 

[arrow]

Ok Buckeye, thank you for your help. I'll look it over. I really didn't care which welder I would get only which welder would be applicable for my circumstances and is the reason I did not go into "which welder should I get" territory where people debate which is the easiest to use. I'll weld with my wife's temper if I have to. (hmm, that's an idea)

Emmy, that was extremely useful information. The dryer is not on the garage circuit. The garage circuit is on one dedicated 10 gage line with nothing in between. When I attempted to open up your diagram my computer stated it was "corrupted" and would not open up. I'm thinking of putting the welder socket right next to the service in the garage or about an 8' run from the service. The garage can remain totally quiet and off as nothing else is on it beyond lights and sockets. I do wonder what the Hobarts diminishing returns are as electrical supply gets longer and amps go up. I'm thinking 150 amps tops for my situation and 140 amps on the generator. DC is a whole nuther situation where I'd probably get even less. That Northern inverter type 200 mig/stick welder looks interesting. I dunno who's making that for them as it just says "Northern" on it. Looks like alot of welder for $600. I'd paste a picture of it but it is not allowing me to.

 

[emmy71]

Glad that information helped. That zip file was the manual for the Stickmate which is available online. Here is the link.

Terry

http://www.hobartwelders.com/om/0900/o950b_hob.pdf