Ken4200
New member
I have an 03 Dodge Ram 1500 w/Hemi & towing pkg. Not sure about GM or Ford, but my truck had a factory installed plug under the dash for an electronic brake controller, which made wiring the controller a no-brainer. Ken
Hauling Tractor opinion please
- Thread starter Larry_T
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Harleymsn
Silver Member
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- Crossville, Tennessee
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- Iseki TS1610 International 240 John Deere 400 Backhoe
Ken, that little plug is part of the towing pkg. All the manufacturers do that, except some of the new Super Duty Fords even come equipped with the brake controller.
Larry, I have towed a 7,000 trailer for the past 5 years
(1 1/2 with a 1/2 ton, the other 3 1/2 with a 3/4 ton) do yourself a favor and go directly to the 3/4 ton. The bigger the motor the better, the lower the rear end (higher number) the better. My 3/4 ton Ford has the V-10 and 430 rear end, yes the gas mileage is bad, but it is worth it. I get about 12 mpg around town, almost 14 mpg on the highway, and when towing my trailer I average about 9 mpg. (probably would do better if I wasn't doing 70 over the mountains in WV with the trailer). My 1/2 ton with the v8 would get about 18 around town, but pulling the trailer reduced it to 6-8 mpg. and don't forget the white knuckles with the 1/2 ton.
That little button on the shift that some of you have mentioned is to disengage the overdrive. Someone mentioned overdrive was a no no for towing, that is true if you don't have the proper engine, transmission and rear gear combination.
The 1/2 tons are normally rated to tow between 6 and 7 thousand with a v8 and auto transmission, some standard shift models are rated as low as 5,000 lbs. My advise is go 3/4 ton at least and go as big an engine as you can, and don't forget the trailer pkg. If buying new, get a class V hitch.
Larry, I have towed a 7,000 trailer for the past 5 years
(1 1/2 with a 1/2 ton, the other 3 1/2 with a 3/4 ton) do yourself a favor and go directly to the 3/4 ton. The bigger the motor the better, the lower the rear end (higher number) the better. My 3/4 ton Ford has the V-10 and 430 rear end, yes the gas mileage is bad, but it is worth it. I get about 12 mpg around town, almost 14 mpg on the highway, and when towing my trailer I average about 9 mpg. (probably would do better if I wasn't doing 70 over the mountains in WV with the trailer). My 1/2 ton with the v8 would get about 18 around town, but pulling the trailer reduced it to 6-8 mpg. and don't forget the white knuckles with the 1/2 ton.
That little button on the shift that some of you have mentioned is to disengage the overdrive. Someone mentioned overdrive was a no no for towing, that is true if you don't have the proper engine, transmission and rear gear combination.
The 1/2 tons are normally rated to tow between 6 and 7 thousand with a v8 and auto transmission, some standard shift models are rated as low as 5,000 lbs. My advise is go 3/4 ton at least and go as big an engine as you can, and don't forget the trailer pkg. If buying new, get a class V hitch.
bandit67
Veteran Member
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- May 27, 2004
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- Lake Hartwell, SC
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- 2012 B3000 HSDCC 2020 Z251 Zero Turn
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Not to state the obvious, but these trucks come with optional trailering packages which include special coolers and some modification to the transmission characteristics. On my Silverado, which has this package, there's a special button on the end of the gear stick (auto trans) that you push in when you are trailering. I believe this keeps the truck from shifting as quickly or something like that. Others may know better how this stuff works, I haven't trailered anything with it yet. In any case, if you plan to tow close to the maximums, you should probably get the tow package and if you're going used, look for it.
Cliff)</font>
The tow/haul feature on the 1/2 ton V8's causes
1) the Torque Converter to lock up a bit sooner than normal on acceleration
2) hold each gear a little further into the rpm band so that when it upshifts, it isn't lugging the motor
3) not shift into overdrive as often as normal operation, though on the GM's, it seems that overdrive is available in tow/haul mode, based on my experience with my wife's Yukon Denali.
The tow/haul feature on the transmissions on the 3/4 and 1 ton diesels, big V8's and V10's is a different beast altogether, and is a far superior towing transmission compared to the 1/2 ton trannies. The nicest feature of those transmissions is an automatic downshift feature that helps slow the vehicle, saving the brakes, when coming down a hill or to a stop.
Not to state the obvious, but these trucks come with optional trailering packages which include special coolers and some modification to the transmission characteristics. On my Silverado, which has this package, there's a special button on the end of the gear stick (auto trans) that you push in when you are trailering. I believe this keeps the truck from shifting as quickly or something like that. Others may know better how this stuff works, I haven't trailered anything with it yet. In any case, if you plan to tow close to the maximums, you should probably get the tow package and if you're going used, look for it.
Cliff)</font>
The tow/haul feature on the 1/2 ton V8's causes
1) the Torque Converter to lock up a bit sooner than normal on acceleration
2) hold each gear a little further into the rpm band so that when it upshifts, it isn't lugging the motor
3) not shift into overdrive as often as normal operation, though on the GM's, it seems that overdrive is available in tow/haul mode, based on my experience with my wife's Yukon Denali.
The tow/haul feature on the transmissions on the 3/4 and 1 ton diesels, big V8's and V10's is a different beast altogether, and is a far superior towing transmission compared to the 1/2 ton trannies. The nicest feature of those transmissions is an automatic downshift feature that helps slow the vehicle, saving the brakes, when coming down a hill or to a stop.
Moon
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- SE Ohio, Meigs County
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- Kubota L3010HST R4's, Scag Wildcat ZTR, 61
I've been towing a 6000LB Boat trailer combo with my 4x4 1/2 ton Silverado for the past 6 years. Boat ramp is 2 miles from our place. Once in awhile I have to take the boat for service 20 to 50 miles away (depending on whats being done). Those offering advice to go bigger are right on. I dread having to tow any distance, and try to avoid it if possilbe. For the 2 miles to the boat ramp it does fine, but I'm sure my next truck will be a 3/4 ton. Maybe even a diesel.
Anyone know what kind of milage you get with the big diesels?
Thanks,
Moon of Ohio
Anyone know what kind of milage you get with the big diesels?
Thanks,
Moon of Ohio
v8dave
Platinum Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...snip...
... but I'm sure my next truck will be a 3/4 ton. Maybe even a diesel.
Anyone know what kind of milage you get with the big diesels?
Thanks,
Moon of Ohio )</font>
With my 2003, Ford F250 4x4, crew cab, 6.5' box, torqueshift automatic, single rear wheels, 6.0 Diesel, I get 18+ MPG not towing and 16 mpg towing a partially loaded enclosed 20' car hauler running about 7,000 pounds. The towing was only rolling hills and long fairly flat stretches, the 18 mpg is in the foothills around the home town, regularly going up and down 1,500' to 2,000' on trips to the valley and back.
I have a friend wtih a new 2004 Dodge, HO Cummins Diesel, equipped similarly, except with a manual transmission. Much to both our surprises, he gets very close to the same mileage. We both expected his to get better. But, the new Cummins HO has been screwed by the California smog rules and gets slightly poorer mileage that his old Dodge Cummins did (used to get 20+ on the highway unloaded). But, he can talk outside the truck now with the engine running. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
... but I'm sure my next truck will be a 3/4 ton. Maybe even a diesel.
Anyone know what kind of milage you get with the big diesels?
Thanks,
Moon of Ohio )</font>
With my 2003, Ford F250 4x4, crew cab, 6.5' box, torqueshift automatic, single rear wheels, 6.0 Diesel, I get 18+ MPG not towing and 16 mpg towing a partially loaded enclosed 20' car hauler running about 7,000 pounds. The towing was only rolling hills and long fairly flat stretches, the 18 mpg is in the foothills around the home town, regularly going up and down 1,500' to 2,000' on trips to the valley and back.
I have a friend wtih a new 2004 Dodge, HO Cummins Diesel, equipped similarly, except with a manual transmission. Much to both our surprises, he gets very close to the same mileage. We both expected his to get better. But, the new Cummins HO has been screwed by the California smog rules and gets slightly poorer mileage that his old Dodge Cummins did (used to get 20+ on the highway unloaded). But, he can talk outside the truck now with the engine running. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
v8dave
Platinum Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...snip...
The tow/haul feature on the transmissions on the 3/4 and 1 ton diesels, big V8's and V10's is a different beast altogether, and is a far superior towing transmission compared to the 1/2 ton trannies. The nicest feature of those transmissions is an automatic downshift feature that helps slow the vehicle, saving the brakes, when coming down a hill or to a stop. )</font>
Cliff is right. The newer GM products with the Allison (2001 or 2002 and later) and the Ford (part way through 2003 and later) with the Torquehift automatic transmissions both have a Tow/Haul mode button that modifies the shift points to stay in gears longer on up shifts and to shift down sooner on down shifts. And, they also cause the transmission to shift down when you step on the brake pedal (providing you are at a slow enough engine speed to do so).
My Ford works nice, in the foothills around here you pull a grade in a lower gear, you crest the hill and then start down hill, instead of shifting up like most automatics would, the tow mode keeps the transmission in the same gear as you coast down the hill. Even shifting down if you apply the brakes.
Of course, lightly loaded and tow mode off, it acts just like a car would and shifts up, requiring you to apply the brakes. Sometimes, instead of riding the brakes on long down grades, I hit the tow mode button and tap the brakes to force a down shift.
Dodge has used essentially the same automatic transmission for their Diesel since they started putting in Cummins Diesels. They continue to upgrade it to handle the increasing amounts of torque. But, I don't know how they operate.
The tow/haul feature on the transmissions on the 3/4 and 1 ton diesels, big V8's and V10's is a different beast altogether, and is a far superior towing transmission compared to the 1/2 ton trannies. The nicest feature of those transmissions is an automatic downshift feature that helps slow the vehicle, saving the brakes, when coming down a hill or to a stop. )</font>
Cliff is right. The newer GM products with the Allison (2001 or 2002 and later) and the Ford (part way through 2003 and later) with the Torquehift automatic transmissions both have a Tow/Haul mode button that modifies the shift points to stay in gears longer on up shifts and to shift down sooner on down shifts. And, they also cause the transmission to shift down when you step on the brake pedal (providing you are at a slow enough engine speed to do so).
My Ford works nice, in the foothills around here you pull a grade in a lower gear, you crest the hill and then start down hill, instead of shifting up like most automatics would, the tow mode keeps the transmission in the same gear as you coast down the hill. Even shifting down if you apply the brakes.
Of course, lightly loaded and tow mode off, it acts just like a car would and shifts up, requiring you to apply the brakes. Sometimes, instead of riding the brakes on long down grades, I hit the tow mode button and tap the brakes to force a down shift.
Dodge has used essentially the same automatic transmission for their Diesel since they started putting in Cummins Diesels. They continue to upgrade it to handle the increasing amounts of torque. But, I don't know how they operate.
higgy
Platinum Member
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- mid-south idaho
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The dodge mileage started to drop when they went to the multi valve heads, as you indicated to meet emission standards.
My 95 single valve cummins gets 23-24 not loaded and 18-19 with a loaded 6 horse trailer or flatbed.
I bought a 2004 and was down in 14-16 range empty and as low as 12-14 loaded. Sold it and now only have the 95.
I agree there is no truck under 3/4 ton that I would concider, ever.
My 95 single valve cummins gets 23-24 not loaded and 18-19 with a loaded 6 horse trailer or flatbed.
I bought a 2004 and was down in 14-16 range empty and as low as 12-14 loaded. Sold it and now only have the 95.
I agree there is no truck under 3/4 ton that I would concider, ever.
CTyler
Veteran Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The tow/haul feature on the 1/2 ton V8's causes
1) the Torque Converter to lock up a bit sooner than normal on acceleration
2) hold each gear a little further into the rpm band so that when it upshifts, it isn't lugging the motor
3) not shift into overdrive as often as normal operation, though on the GM's, it seems that overdrive is available in tow/haul mode, based on my experience with my wife's Yukon Denali. )</font>
You have to be going 60+ before it will shift into OD.
When in Tow/Haul it will up the pressure so it shifts firmer as well.
1) the Torque Converter to lock up a bit sooner than normal on acceleration
2) hold each gear a little further into the rpm band so that when it upshifts, it isn't lugging the motor
3) not shift into overdrive as often as normal operation, though on the GM's, it seems that overdrive is available in tow/haul mode, based on my experience with my wife's Yukon Denali. )</font>
You have to be going 60+ before it will shift into OD.
When in Tow/Haul it will up the pressure so it shifts firmer as well.
Indydirtfarmer
Platinum Member
As is the case with most equipment issues, hauling rigs are best "over-kill" as opposed to "under-kill". (or even-kill ?????)
If you are closing in on the recommended towing capacity of a truck, it may be best to jump up to the next level. Same applies to trailers. A 7000LB load with a 7000lb towing capacity will "work", but in some situations, like braking in a panic, you'll see why the limit was set at it's recommendation.
I would suggest a 25% saftey factor on GVW ratings as a minimum.
It's not about what you can haul under most conditions, it's about what you can haul under ALL conditions.
Panic braking, dealing with pot holes, cornering at speed (that loads one side of your suspension), and any other unforseen situations will take you past your safe limits in a heartbeat.
Then consider you don't always get to load a trailer just the way you want. An unusually long implement will make you load the weight of the tractor forward or to the rear of the trailer, as opposed to right where you want it. That may load the trailer "heavy" or the truck.... You need a margin of error.
I haul a 6500 lb tractor, with as much as 4000 lbs of "implements" on a 25' gooseneck (14,000GVW) . I tow it with an '04 Dodge 3500 (Cummins HO diesel/automatic) The longer trailer lets me move fore and aft to position the weight where I need it. I try to scale about 2000 lbs of the load on the truck. With the position of my trailer ball, I end up with about 10% of that load on the front axle of the Dodge. Makes for a nice, safe load.
If you plan on one or two "loads" a year, you can cut it close, and PROBABLY get away with it. But.....If you're going to haul often, go overkill.
Also, in closing, your truck will last much longer, and have fewer problems, if it should be substantially heavier than your basic requirements. Hauling at maximum load will shorten the life of ANY truck.
If you are closing in on the recommended towing capacity of a truck, it may be best to jump up to the next level. Same applies to trailers. A 7000LB load with a 7000lb towing capacity will "work", but in some situations, like braking in a panic, you'll see why the limit was set at it's recommendation.
I would suggest a 25% saftey factor on GVW ratings as a minimum.
It's not about what you can haul under most conditions, it's about what you can haul under ALL conditions.
Panic braking, dealing with pot holes, cornering at speed (that loads one side of your suspension), and any other unforseen situations will take you past your safe limits in a heartbeat.
Then consider you don't always get to load a trailer just the way you want. An unusually long implement will make you load the weight of the tractor forward or to the rear of the trailer, as opposed to right where you want it. That may load the trailer "heavy" or the truck.... You need a margin of error.
I haul a 6500 lb tractor, with as much as 4000 lbs of "implements" on a 25' gooseneck (14,000GVW) . I tow it with an '04 Dodge 3500 (Cummins HO diesel/automatic) The longer trailer lets me move fore and aft to position the weight where I need it. I try to scale about 2000 lbs of the load on the truck. With the position of my trailer ball, I end up with about 10% of that load on the front axle of the Dodge. Makes for a nice, safe load.
If you plan on one or two "loads" a year, you can cut it close, and PROBABLY get away with it. But.....If you're going to haul often, go overkill.
Also, in closing, your truck will last much longer, and have fewer problems, if it should be substantially heavier than your basic requirements. Hauling at maximum load will shorten the life of ANY truck.
