Have new 4105 -- Want to hay

[kfvintx]

Thanks AKfish! I've followed you on several other threads (specifically you receiving your 5075M) and was hoping you would post in this with some advice. Don't worry about being long winded on any replies to me :thumbsup:

You answered one of my bigger questions -- if I buy baler and find a way to get by with smaller tractor can I move into larger tractor later and be set. But from the sound of it I would then have baler too small only because I was trying to get by before. Even worse situation in my mind because nothing I dislike more than having to rebuy something because I didn't make proper decision the first time.

I'm not in west Texas but kinda northern central area (Stephenville for those familiar with TX). It gets plenty hot and dry (don't even talk about this year) but not sure about cutting one day and baling the next. Most people I see around there use MOCO and sometimes bale following day or wait one more. Pure observation which may not be best practice.

I've moved the 4x5's we had baled this year with the JD4105 with no problem. Going to 4x6 might be a different story though..... hmmm, something else to think about. I would like to stay with 4x5 as it seems to have better marketability. I don't have livestock so entire production would be for sale.

 

[AKfish]

Glad to throw my $0.02 into the pot!

100 acres of hay is a whole lotta ground/hay for a 33hp tractor! Especially if you put up more than 1 cutting a season..

I don't have the finances (or the right wife..) to be spending money for something that won't quite "fit" my current operation and doesn't really provide enough future flexibility, either.

Small squares work best for my small farm and they're a good fit for the horse market up here, too. The 336 is on the big side for the 110 - but it's OK on the 5075.

Most folk's (here on TBN and around home) start out slow and work their way into the deeper water!

IMHO - hang onto your money for awhile - see what's workin' for your neighbor's and move forward when the direction you want to take is clearer.

The 4105 can be a great platform to work those chores that a custom operator wouldn't want to take on anyways - spraying, fertilizing, raking, moving bales, etc.

AKfish

 

[Verticaltrx]

Since you mentioned about 100ac of hay, I figured I'd give an example of about what the minimum equipment is to make that in round bales.

This past year we expanded to about 100ac of hay and used the following equipment.

JD 5045e tractor (38 PTO hp)
JD 2550 tractor (65 PTO hp)
Kubota M9540 tractor (82 PTO hp)

New Holland 616 disc mower, 7'10" cut
Deere 702 wheel rake, about 16-18' wide
Krone 4 basket tedder
Deere 446 round baler, 4x4' bales

We mow with the 2550 deere and NH disc mower. To do that much land it takes 2-3 days mowing 8hrs a day. Then we generally ted it once pulling the tedder with either the 2550 or 5045e, takes about all day to ted.

Raking is pretty quick, with the rake on the 2550 moving at about 10-15mph it takes around 5-6hrs to get 100ac raked. Sometimes we use the 5045e on the rake but it is a little slower as it doesn't have the HP to pull the rake that fast.

Baling is very dependent on how heavy the has is, but with the M9540 Kubota pulling the baler as hard as it can go it generally takes a couple days to bale it all. Honestly the baler is too small for this much acreage, too much time is spent making hundreds of 700lb bales. Next year hopefully we can upgrade to a larger balers.

Now granted, our terrain isn't flat, the fields are in various smaller acreages and sometimes the hay is pretty heavy. If you have large fields and good flat ground it would be a little quicker, but not much.

I'll also add, when the hay is getting close to being ready often all three tractors will be running at the same time. You could get by with two, one tractor would be miserable on this much acreage with this size implements. Basically, I think you need more tractor, a lot more, to accomplish what you want. Keep the 4105 for raking, tedding, etc and get a large 2wd tractor to handle the mowing and baling. Something with 75-100 PTO hp is where you should start.

Another viable option is hiring the baling and doing the rest your self. Then you could get by with a slightly smaller 'large' tractor, but still probably need something with 50-60 PTO hp even in that case.

Good luck with your project, haying can be both very rewarding and very frustrating, depending on the circumstances. :thumbsup:

 

[Tx Jim]

Where can I find requirements of older equipment? Just out of curiosity I started looking and just happen to see JD 926 MOCO and JD 567 baler. Both 2000-2003 model years with prices I could afford and justify. Both are 540

Minimum pto hp for a JD 567 rd baler is 75 and IIRC a 926 mo-co will be 75 or more

 

[Tx Jim]

You can accomplish this. They make disc mowers for your HP and round balers as well.

blueriver
I'm curious what rd baler is available for a JD 4105 tractor rated @ 33 pto hp???

 

[kfvintx]

So you say there is a chance....

Just kidding. Sounds like general concensus is this is not gonna happen with current setup. And I'm fine with that. I just wanted to know and get others opinions. Kinda knew in the back of my mind anyways.....

Not interested in tearing up current equipment just to try to make it work. I will try to do as much as possible with JD4105 and have rest hired out until then.

Still interested in hearing about mowers and round balers that could be used by JD4105. I have some calls into outfits I sell my hay through to see if interst in 4x4 rolls.

 

[kfvintx]

Since you mentioned about 100ac of hay, I figured I'd give an example of about what the minimum equipment is to make that in round bales.

This past year we expanded to about 100ac of hay and used the following equipment.

JD 5045e tractor (38 PTO hp)
JD 2550 tractor (65 PTO hp)
Kubota M9540 tractor (82 PTO hp)

New Holland 616 disc mower, 7'10" cut
Deere 702 wheel rake, about 16-18' wide
Krone 4 basket tedder
Deere 446 round baler, 4x4' bales

We mow with the 2550 deere and NH disc mower. To do that much land it takes 2-3 days mowing 8hrs a day. Then we generally ted it once pulling the tedder with either the 2550 or 5045e, takes about all day to ted.

Raking is pretty quick, with the rake on the 2550 moving at about 10-15mph it takes around 5-6hrs to get 100ac raked. Sometimes we use the 5045e on the rake but it is a little slower as it doesn't have the HP to pull the rake that fast.

Baling is very dependent on how heavy the has is, but with the M9540 Kubota pulling the baler as hard as it can go it generally takes a couple days to bale it all. Honestly the baler is too small for this much acreage, too much time is spent making hundreds of 700lb bales. Next year hopefully we can upgrade to a larger balers.

Now granted, our terrain isn't flat, the fields are in various smaller acreages and sometimes the hay is pretty heavy. If you have large fields and good flat ground it would be a little quicker, but not much.

I'll also add, when the hay is getting close to being ready often all three tractors will be running at the same time. You could get by with two, one tractor would be miserable on this much acreage with this size implements. Basically, I think you need more tractor, a lot more, to accomplish what you want. Keep the 4105 for raking, tedding, etc and get a large 2wd tractor to handle the mowing and baling. Something with 75-100 PTO hp is where you should start.

Another viable option is hiring the baling and doing the rest your self. Then you could get by with a slightly smaller 'large' tractor, but still probably need something with 50-60 PTO hp even in that case.

Good luck with your project, haying can be both very rewarding and very frustrating, depending on the circumstances. :thumbsup:

WOW!! Can't get any better response than that for real life explanation. Answered questions I didn't know I had yet. Thanks :thumbsup:

Is tedding and raking still required with a good MOCO? This is for coastal grass in typically drier area.

 

[dmay]

WOW!! Can't get any better response than that for real life explanation. Answered questions I didn't know I had yet. Thanks :thumbsup:

Is tedding and raking still required with a good MOCO? This is for coastal grass in typically drier area.

Each operation of a tractor costs you money (diesel) so typically you only ted/rake if necessary. The terms tedd and rake are somewhat confusing.

Tedding fluffs, spreads or moves/flips over the windrow of hay. You typically only do this if the hay is not adequately drying on its own. If hay is drying fine you dont need to waste time and money tedding it. Choosing the right equipment helps a lot. For instance a sickle bar mower just cuts where a MOCO conditions or crimps the hay at multiple locations to speed up the drying process. If the hay was cut with a MOCO with excess moisture or got rained on when down then tedding/raking may still be required.

Depending on the style of rake, a rake can accomplish the same tedding functions. A large V rakes adds the ability to merge multiple windrows into one. So when your equipment is BIG and your doing big bales, you tend to V rake multiple windrows into big windrow which means less time spent baling.

I'm glad we have persuaded you to use the right sized equipment for the hay job desired. I used to hay 80 acres with a 65HP in small square bales. I would never want to have less HP even for small squares. I like the idea shared of you working with someone doing tasks suitable for your tractor and leaving the other task to hire. You can certainly pull a rake if needed. Sounds like you can move round bales so you can pick and clean up the hay field. You could cut but your cutting equipment would need to be so small in the end I'd leave the cutting and baling to larger equipment.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Each operation of a tractor costs you money (diesel) so typically you only ted/rake if necessary. The terms tedd and rake are somewhat confusing.

Tedding fluffs, spreads or moves/flips over the windrow of hay. You typically only do this if the hay is not adequately drying on its own. If hay is drying fine you dont need to waste time and money tedding it....

That depends on the situation and desired outcome. Many times tedding is not necessary, but doing so gets the hay up faster. The less time it is on the ground the better quality it will be. We also have a JD 1219 Mower Conditioner that we sometimes use, and often will ted even after using that. If the conditions are good, we mow it about noon one day, ted it right after, and can often bale the next afternoon. When you get hay up that quick it has better nutrient content and a bright green color you just can't get after it has laid on the ground a couple/few days. We do this even for legumes, just have to ted right after mowing to avoid leaf loss. Going through two drying operations (conditioning from the moco, and slight condition and spreading out from the tedder) really gets it dry fast.

 

[blueriver]

blueriver
I'm curious what rd baler is available for a JD 4105 tractor rated @ 33 pto hp???

The Case IH 8430 is rated for 40 hp and the 8420 is rated 30 hp (per my case IH dealer)

There are also smaller balers that make smaller bales and require less hp.