Hayloft is Crashing Down! Help!

[tinner666]

Nobody mentioned it, and the pix didn't really tell the story, but consider a 1'1/2" -2" all thread or similar to run between, parallel to the joists locking those bands together so they can't spread again.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Nobody mentioned it, and the pix didn't really tell the story, but consider a 1'1/2" -2" all thread or similar to run between, parallel to the joists locking those bands together so they can't spread again.

:thumbsup: Yeah. Sure looks like a spreading failure. The joists could have prevented the spread. But not by virtue of hangers. They arent designed for strength in that mode. ... A 1/16" metal strap nailed to the outside of the header and passing under it to fasten along the bottom edge pf each joist would do it.
larry

 

[MarkV]

Just my opinion, but I might add another vertical support as part of the "emergency" precautions and leave the rest to the insurance company, or engineer, or Morton or the owners choice of repair service. I would be concerned that if you did much more it could contaminate determining the cause and if you were injured the insurance would say you should not have been doing it in the first place. Just my 2 cents.

Mark

 

[dougtrr2]

Been watching this with interest and a lot of good thoughts in the thread. One point I would make is to consider shoring BOTH ends of the failed joists. Even though only one end tore loose the other end may have been damaged also. Just a thought.

Take Care
Doug in SW IA

 

[sdkubota]

Just my opinion, but I might add another vertical support as part of the "emergency" precautions and leave the rest to the insurance company, or engineer, or Morton or the owners choice of repair service. I would be concerned that if you did much more it could contaminate determining the cause and if you were injured the insurance would say you should not have been doing it in the first place. Just my 2 cents.

Mark

You touched on a very good point. Whatever repairs you make will shift liability to you for any future issues. You do not want to take liabilty for the structure in anyway. I would remove the hay and allow the building owner to direct any repairs that should be made. Even bringing the loft back to the original condition may shift liability to you as you have no idea what effects the collapse had on all the other joist hangers, etc. I probably worry over the smallest of details but as an engineer have to be extremely carefull about liability, project control, etc. and the possibility of future litigation.

 

[amaxwell]

Been watching this with interest and a lot of good thoughts in the thread. One point I would make is to consider shoring BOTH ends of the failed joists. Even though only one end tore loose the other end may have been damaged also. Just a thought.

Take Care
Doug in SW IA

Best idea yet, if the bowed beam shifts ANY more, the other end will also pull away and fall down!

 

[GPintheMitten]

All very good ideas gentlemen. Thank you.

I did shore up the other side that did not break loose. I bolted a 12' 2x12 to the posts at the level of directly under the floor joists. I placed 2 heavy screw floor jacks under each end of the 6x6 and used a 4x6 on each to support both ends of the 6x6.

Today the owner and an Amish barn builder came out. The owner is not trying to blame my daughter (or me) and thanked me very much for shoring things up so that it did not get worse. He offered to pay me for the $100 of lumber and bolts etc that I purchased to get it in better shape.

I'm not going to do anything more to the building.

The owner has filed a claim with his insurance company and called Morton Buildings. The adjustor and a Mortons Building rep are going to look at the situation with the owner on Monday.

The Amish barn builder told the owner that what I did improved things tremendously and are a good place to leave it until permanent fixes are made. He (the barn builder) recommended bolting 2x16 glue lam along the entire length of the barn on both sides to support the floor joists (like I did with the 2x12). He is going to give the owner a bid. The owner seems quite interested in making that improvement.

And the owner is willing to let the hay stay there because the builder said he could make the improvements with the hay there. He'll jack the bowed down joists up to be straight.

So, all in all, not a bad outcome, so far.

 

[sparc]

Started shoring up. Here's what we have so far.

you're probably already past this stage but that cribbing should be more substancial than what you have in these photos. stacking those 4x4s 6 high single width is not stable. now you've got your load tranferred over to another unstable support. place a 2x8 on the floor and run a 4x4 slightly longer than the final height so you have to wedge it in hitting it with a sledge at the bottom slightly after jacking up SLOWLY. Give the structure time to adjust as you raise it up. Bring it up evenly across the affected area. This should be done by three or more people for a job this size. Make sure you have an escape path planned and its not blocked with tools and timbers that you will trip over if you have to run like he!! when it breaks loose. I would have someone outside the work zone (with a phone) who will be able to call for help if something goes seriously wrong.

 

[sparc]

You touched on a very good point. Whatever repairs you make will shift liability to you for any future issues. You do not want to take liabilty for the structure in anyway. I would remove the hay and allow the building owner to direct any repairs that should be made. Even bringing the loft back to the original condition may shift liability to you as you have no idea what effects the collapse had on all the other joist hangers, etc. I probably worry over the smallest of details but as an engineer have to be extremely carefull about liability, project control, etc. and the possibility of future litigation.

i too believe this is the besst course of action for hte renter to take. its not their property and they should not have to repair this and they take on liability if they do in my opinion.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Thanks, sparc. Actually, the cribbing is more substantial than it may appear in the pics.

At any rate, the beam is now supported with the center jack and 2 screw jacks, and 4x6s on stable cribbing and another 4x6 not on any jack.

That, and the owner is taking it from here, with a barn builder to fix this failed section and then reinforcing the entire run of the loft with bolted thru glue lams.

The owner is taking responsibility for everything.