Heat Pump

[Sigarms]

Actually, I just had a leak develop in the air handler side of the unit. They sent out a new air handler (including the line set pre-charged) under warranty and I was up and running in no time. Great people to deal with.

You lucked out, congratulations. That said, it worked for you and at this point, thats all the matters, and I understand that.

In 20 so years or so selling mini splits, I honestly can't ever remember having a indoor coil leak within the warranty time frame period of 5 or 10 years. Since yours failed within 2 years, tells me what I need to know about the line.

That said, if the manufacturer is selling to unlicensed contractors, that warranty you got will only last so long before the distribution in the US figures out that they need to cross their t's and dot their i's before they go belly up.

Daiken who bought out Goodman is going through that learning process right now...

 

[Navvet]

You lucked out, congratulations. That said, it worked for you and at this point, thats all the matters, and I understand that.

In 20 so years or so selling mini splits, I honestly can't ever remember having a indoor coil leak within the warranty time frame period of 5 or 10 years. Since yours failed within 2 years, tells me what I need to know about the line.

That said, if the manufacturer is selling to unlicensed contractors, that warranty you got will only last so long before the distribution in the US figures out that they need to cross their t's and dot their i's before they go belly up.

Daiken who bought out Goodman is going through that learning process right now...

Well I guess you don't believe in extended warranties, but that's beside the point. I prefer a problem to show up within the warranty period and to have it quickly and efficiently taken care of. With my experience I have learned that no equipment is perfect, things break and fail all the time, that's what warranties are for ....

Also, please don't confuse the issue, a licence is only required for the handling / charging of the freon, these systems are designed and shipped "pre-charged" and sealed. No handling of freon so no licence required, hence the DIY label. Numerous manufactures sell pre-charged package heat pumps that do not require a licence'd contractor to install.

As a matter of fact, I replaced my 3.5 ton heat pump for my house with just such a unit. It arrived charged and ready to go, just hooked it up and turned it on (11 years ago).

 

[Sigarms]

Well I guess you don't believe in extended warranties, but that's beside the point. I prefer a problem to show up within the warranty period and to have it quickly and efficiently taken care of. With my experience I have learned that no equipment is perfect, things break and fail all the time, that's what warranties are for ....

Also, please don't confuse the issue, a licence is only required for the handling / charging of the freon, these systems are designed and shipped "pre-charged" and sealed. No handling of freon so no licence required, hence the DIY label. Numerous manufactures sell pre-charged package heat pumps that do not require a licence'd contractor to install.

As a matter of fact, I replaced my 3.5 ton heat pump for my house with just such a unit. It arrived charged and ready to go, just hooked it up and turned it on (11 years ago).

I have a Universal license myself and also instruct / give CFC exams to others. I understand the legalities. Just because a guy has a CFC card doesn't mean he knows what he's doing and he should be installing equipment LOL By the same token, I also understand that if a guy doesn't have a type of HVAC license, he may know what he's doing.

The issue from a manufacturers stand point per warranty and who installs their equipment comes from installation practices from those in the field and how those practices can affect their equipment. Mini splits are a little more forgiving in my own opinion in those installation practices and variables such as static pressure and air flow dosen't play the same affect.

 

[TractorGuy]

On my second Goodman package unit in 25 years.

First was contractor installed 3 ton. The compressor failed just prior to the 5 year warranty they offered back then. When the tech opened the case he pulled out the manual that came with it and handed it to me. Inside was a extended warranty offer for $20 that would pay parts and labor for 5 years. They were going to charge me $480 to replace the compressor under warranty. I argued if I had been given the extended warranty at the time of install I would have jumped on it for $20. Tech called Goodman and they told him to collect my $20 and put a compressor in.

My first unit never really kept up in extreme heat and cold so when it died again at 13 years old I decided to replace rather than repair. Being a simple package unit I took on the task myself. For the installed price estimates I received I could buy 3 units and DIY so risking the lack of warranty was a no brainer. I could have saved a couple hundred more dollars buying online but knew a co worker with a contractor's license so I paid him to broker the deal on a 3.5 ton Goodman and picked it up local. It has kept the house comfortable even in extremes until recently. The only repairs I have had to make on this in 12 years has been a couple of start capacitors. I keep one of those as a spare now because they will wait till it's 98 degrees outside to fail. Have also replaced the thermostat but that is no fault of the AC/Heat Pump unit. It has started not keeping up and if I don't find any problem in the ducts I will order a 16 SEER unit to replace it with.

Some years back I had a rat crawl up on the supply duct, chew a hole in it, and died from ingesting the insulation. Imagine living with THAT smell until I found the cause. Dead rats smell suspiciously like burned electrics so I feared a fire hazard at first. I have checked and cleaned the evaporator and condenser coils and pressures are good so I'm thinking my tape job on that duct may have failed. Either way it isn't a bad idea to update every 10-15 years since they tend to become more efficient. Unlike tractors some things get more reliable and better built as technology improves.

 

[Navvet]

I have a Universal license myself and also instruct / give CFC exams to others. I understand the legalities. Just because a guy has a CFC card doesn't mean he knows what he's doing and he should be installing equipment LOL By the same token, I also understand that if a guy doesn't have a type of HVAC license, he may know what he's doing.

The issue from a manufacturers stand point per warranty and who installs their equipment comes from installation practices from those in the field and how those practices can affect their equipment. Mini splits are a little more forgiving in my own opinion in those installation practices and variables such as static pressure and air flow dosen't play the same affect.

Absolutely, We are in agreement on the most critical point. Understanding the equipment and proper installation are critical with any equipment. With proper research and understanding of what you are doing, there are "DIY" systems on the market that a person can install themselves and save significant $$$. In the case of a workshop, outbuilding, garage, or an addition to a home (think bonus room), a DIY ductless mini split is an elegant and cost effective solution for heating and cooling (especially in our area of the country Sigarms).

For a homeowner who has a failing HVAC, moving all the equipment into a single package outside and tying it in with trunks to the existing ductwork is a solution that saves a ton of money and easily done by the average homeowner with moderate skills.

And now I realize that I have committed an unpardonable sin by hi-jacking this thread, my apologies to all for my rants.

 

[Sigarms]

The compressor failed just prior to the 5 year warranty they offered back then. When the tech opened the case he pulled out the manual that came with it and handed it to me. Inside was a extended warranty offer for $20 that would pay parts and labor for 5 years. They were going to charge me $480 to replace the compressor under warranty. I argued if I had been given the extended warranty at the time of install I would have jumped on it for $20. Tech called Goodman and they told him to collect my $20 and put a compressor in.

And that's exactly why the japs have a pretty big headache right now with Goodman.

Goodman was nortious on their $99 10 year labor plans.

 

[JRobyn]

My contractor sold me on Rheem "Prestige" units. A bit more complicated than I'd like. Variable speed compressor/condenser and AHU fans. We've lost 2 condenser fans so far, but replaced under warranty. One of them took a few days to get out of Rheem parts.

 

[Dftodd]

Have a Trane and have always had quick service. Have been without air for13 days and it is very hot and humid. Installer says they can't get parts. I like to be reasonable but patience's are wearing thin. I was just wondering if other folks had dealt with this kind of problems.

I have a 5 ton Trane in my house. Had one issue knock on wood. A pressure sensor went out causing the unit to short cycle and burned out the 3 stage fan on the outside unit.

Took a couple days for the tech to get the pressure switch and get back out to the house. Got the unit up and running and rigged up a temporary fan in it till the proper one came in.

Tech moved on to the next call and forgot about the replacement fan.

I happened to run into the tech about 6 months later and asked about the fan.

He called the supply house and they had it still sitting there waiting for him.

He swung out the next day and replaced it.

13 days without ac and me and the company would be having a come to Jesus meeting. Followed by a call to all the other companies to see who could get it fixed.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I super happy with a Mitsubishi. I went with Mitsubishi because they had the most efficent units that could generate heat all the way down to -11F (their "hyper-heat" H2 tech) and still be at 100% efficency at 5F and so the heat pump became a secondary source of heat behind the boiler, and infront of the fireplaces as well as keeping the house cool in the summer.

I purchased the MSZ-FH18NA2 head unit, and the hyper heating MUZ-FH18NAH2 base along with a bunch of options for cold weather operation and their wireless (Honeywell) remote.

 

[Sigarms]

I purchased the MSZ-FH18NA2 head unit, and the hyper heating MUZ-FH18NAH2 base along with a bunch of options for cold weather operation and their wireless (Honeywell) remote.

Just curious if you actually utilize the iSee sensor on that indoor unit?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I have a Universal license myself and also instruct / give CFC exams to others. I understand the legalities. Just because a guy has a CFC card doesn't mean he knows what he's doing and he should be installing equipment LOL By the same token, I also understand that if a guy doesn't have a type of HVAC license, he may know what he's doing.

The issue from a manufacturers stand point per warranty and who installs their equipment comes from installation practices from those in the field and how those practices can affect their equipment. Mini splits are a little more forgiving in my own opinion in those installation practices and variables such as static pressure and air flow dosen't play the same affect.

As an auto tech, I simply purchased the vaccuum pump, flaring tool, fittings and manifold I needed to draw vacuum, pressure test for leaks and, evac and fill when I installed my heat pump. Child's play.

r

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Just curious if you actually utilize the iSee sensor on that indoor unit?

No. I do have the heater for the drip pan, but the iSee is superceeded by the Honeywell remote. I'm super happy with the result and the both the outside unit and inside unit are whisper quiet. I'd purchase the same set-up again.

 

[Sigarms]

the iSee is superceeded by the Honeywell remote.

Brain fart on my end... That MHK1 (Redlink wireless) is really the cats meow IMO for ductless.

There are just too many things that can happen with a wireless remote. Did get a phone call one time, apparently an older gentleman was using his TV remote to control his mini split and was complaining his mini split wasn't working properly.

 

[TractorGuy]

And that's exactly why the japs have a pretty big headache right now with Goodman.

Goodman was nortious on their $99 10 year labor plans.

My current 12 yo unit has a Copeland compressor like 90% of the units made. No problem with the compressor and just a couple of start capacitors so knock on wood this one has done pretty good. Goodman now comes with a 10 year parts warranty but I don't know if they offer any labor these days.

I have seen a fair amount of Copeland compressors die under warranty though.

 

[buickanddeere]

Doing an upgrade here in a couple of weeks . Rudd two stage condensing LP furnace , Rudd 2 ton 15 SER heat pump and a 199,000btu GSW tankless LP water heater .

 

[hslogger]

Mitsubishi ductless with a stellar contractor is a great combination.
House has four indoor units with two outside suppliers.
Separate building has one and one.
We went this route over a period of deep research and recommendations from the local power co op.
Totally satisfied.

 

[Sigarms]

Mitsubishi ductless with a stellar contractor is a great combination.
House has four indoor units with two outside suppliers.
Separate building has one and one.
We went this route over a period of deep research and recommendations from the local power co op.
Totally satisfied.

The only thing I don't like about the Mitsubishi multi zone is there is no auto changeover between zones. Master zone determines heat or cool mode, or you have to turn the system off to reset mode.

Since you have two systems, this only affects 2 zones each, however, if you we're running 4 to 8 zones off one outdoor head, depending on the loads in the rooms and particularly in spring and fall where the weather is in the 70's, this can cause some headaches for the end user. Some other brands can use a auto changeover mode, but talking with the tech departments, end users still may not be happy with the time amount for the auto changeover.

That said, Mitsubishi now has an adaptor for each indoor head to run off their Kumo cloud app for multi zone systems that allows for a auto changeover benefit, but it can substantially increase the dollar amount for the job.

This is one reason along with a couple of others I wouldn't use a 4-8 head multi zone system for my own home.

 

[RalphVa]

Can't imagine why you'd need heat in one room/area and AC in another. Can see where you'd do fan in one room/area and AC or heat elsewhere, but not at the same time. The Fujitsu controllers work off each inside unit. Haven't tried setting one on heat with the other on AC.

Ralph

 

[Sigarms]

Can't imagine why you'd need heat in one room/area and AC in another. Can see where you'd do fan in one room/area and AC or heat elsewhere, but not at the same time. The Fujitsu controllers work off each inside unit. Haven't tried setting one on heat with the other on AC.

Ralph

Multi split level homes, including where and how much window area the home has can easily have temperature swings during the day. You'd be amazed at how windows can affect the load during the day, particularly during spring and fall.

Summer and winter are easy, you'll either keep it in heating (winter) or AC (summer). It's spring and fall when the issues pop up per expectations.

If someone is going to pay a pretty penny to have it done right, their expectations HAVE to be met.

If you have a Fujitsu multi zone, you'll be able to utilize auto changeover with a multi zone system, but you may not be happy with the amount of time it takes.

I've got a 3 story house with a buttload of windows in different areas of the home. Wouldn't touch a 4-8 zone multi zone system for anything.

That said, for one room or two rooms, I could see using a mini split in my own home. However, don't really need it, each floor has it's own system, and all rooms are heated / cooled properly.

Please don't get me wrong, I do love mini splits for their applications. It's just that there are a LOT of varialbes to consider. If you already have ductwork and it's laid out half decent, just makes more sense to go with a conventional split ducted system IMO.

 

[Navvet]

Can't imagine why you'd need heat in one room/area and AC in another.

Ralph

Obviously you have never lived with a woman going through the change !!! :dance1::dance1: