Help Me Design/ Build a Shop

[Dunno]

Here’s something you might not have considered for electric power to the barn - solar power, but with a catch. I recently sat through an info session on converting to solar. They will only hook up to a residential meter, and no to a commercial or garage/industrial meter. It seems the wave of the future is solar, so planning for that is not a bad idea. You can run the barn off of the house meter, and best to go underground. My 200 amp circuit seems to work fine. So, if/when you hook up to solar, the power goes into the house meter and to the barn, which is allowed because it is a residential meter. Big plus!
PS This is for the low cost/subsidized/“free” solar installations. I’d think you could get solar to the barn at full price.

 

[twinotterpilot]

Your are lucky to be at the planning stage with a clean slate. I moved into a place, made a few changes, but didn't have the time or money to get the most out of it.
You didn't say how you were planning/designing the layout. Are you using some sort of CAD software? If not, I would suggest so. Another exercise I did in the design world was what I called the "paper doll". Draw individual scale size outlines of as many items as possible. Cut them out, and play around with moving them inside the scale size rectangle that will be the building. CAD is easier, but....
I also drew my tractor and equipment roughly to scale (in CAD) and played around backing up the tractor with an implement attached to figure out maneuvering room and access. Turned out I could nest my baler in the opening of my haybine draw arm, and I easily gained back 80-90 square feet.
The pit sounds like a great idea, as would a hoist. Also a wash bay. All would require some thought ahead of your pouring the flooring
Good luck!

 

[aircommuter]

Having been in construction for 45+ years as an electrical contractor I have done design/build for residential and commercial, I have learned that you must think of your electrical needs as you do your well, how much you need depends on how many things you need to do at the same time. Lights and plugs really don't require much especially with the new LED lights. Probably your highest draw will be the HVAC, electric heat or an electric stove. Electricity is the least efficient way to heat anything so you must plan. That HVAC unit and your basic stove will each draw about 50amps, but most uses will be intermittent, Plan ahead and think small and point of use, like window AC, baseboard heaters and a 6 gal electric water htr or on demand small water htr under sink. I ran my 1st house and shop with a hot tub out back on 125amps with never a problem. I have a neighbor with a 30x60 shop with every tool and a lift, he runs on 100 amps. Two more things to consider, most residential panels will only accept a max 100 amp breaker to plug in, so talk to your elec. contractor before he installs it, and last but not least consider permits, here in rural AZ up to 200 sq ft, the county doesn't care, 200-400 they care about WHERE it goes, after that full drawings and engineering, which ain't cheap. Good Luck

It depends a lot on what the local jurisdiction wants. I got my permit showing two receptacles. The inspector is the plan checker and said he didn’t care about the shop. In California of all places!
Just one if my welders can pull 70 amps and the compressor is 7.5 hp, lighting on one side 22 - 400 watt HID, but I divided it into three areas. So it can add up and all three of them being on together is not uncommon.

 

[MT Kioti]

Post and beam is by far the cheapest method of construction. Typically 6x6 treated posts on pad footings below frost line with built-up beams of 2x10 on top. Trusses span beam-to-beam.

Distance between posts will determine beam size, which is also calculated with your snow load, wind load, etc.

2x4 straps applied horizontally on outside of posts, which you can apply delta-rib steel directly, or (if you have extra money) plywood or OSB.

Personally I would use OSB on the roof, then your felt and metal roof, although some people will strap with 1x or 2x lumber and apply the metal to that.

Now you have a shelter. You can spray-foam interior walls, finish with drywall or other material, add electrical, plumbing, heat, ventilation, etc. as you can afford it.

For the floor, you can keep it gravel, or install asphalt or concrete at any stage of construction after the posts are in.

This type of design is very forgiving, and flexible, allowing extras as you can afford, while still giving you shelter.

 

[dbritt]

Go with red iron. You won't be sorry. You will have about 15-17 feet of clear overhead room. I built 40x60x12 and wish I had made it 50x80x14. But you know what they say about hindsight. I was budget limited, though. I built a 16x16 room in the back corner and used 2x10's for the rafters, decked the top with Advantek and thus didn't lose any storage floor space.

Draw up your plans for what you want, then add a little more to it. No one ever plans big enough. It's cheaper to add a little now than to add on later. Plan for a toilet and sink, even if you don't put them in now. You will be glad later. The only downside to the red iron construction is difficulty insulating the building. You can go with the blanket type, which looks very nice, but you can't good R-values. Spray on gives you an airtight seal and as high an R_value as you want, but it gets collects dust in all those wrinkles and is hard to clean, if you are into that kind of thing. Also, being air tight isn't always good, as you have to get fresh air in the building. If you have an overhead garage door (Do it! Make it big! At least 12hx16w) you'll have your needed ventilation.

I put a 150,000 BTU overhead natural gas heater in mine, enough to knock off the chill in winter and keep the water pipes from freezing. But, it will run it up to 75 degrees on the coldest days, if I want to pay for the gas. I went with the blanket insulation, so barely have an R9, and don't even have that at the purlins and girts where it's compressed to less than 1/4" under the metal siding and roofing. I could have done a lot better in that respect, but I chose to go that way over the spray-on stuff. I have considered installing an A/C system to knock the summertime 90-degree temps down into the 70's so I can work in there when it's hot, like now. But, the system, and the electricity to operate it regularly is more than I want to spend, so I either work in there in the mornings before it gets hot, or the evenings after it cools off. It's only about 2 months of the year that it's that hot. The middle of the hot days I retreat to the 16x16 room with it's mini-split heating and cooling system and play on my electronics workbench and radios (Ham radio operator).

The only thing about mine that I would change if I were to build it again would be to make it 50x60 instead of 40x60. I can get everything in this one, but the extra 10 feet would allow me two advantages. First, it would let me be able to leave my pickup and/or car and/or tractor inside if I needed to work on a large project that requires me to move one or all outside now. Second, it would allow me to build a full-height second story on my current room (not really critical). I might also change my mind on the insulation and go with spray-on even though I hate the stuff. I would probably then install A/C in there. An option I am considering is to build the room on across the full 40ft width across the back, with decking so I don't lose any floor space for storage, put a workbench in there and add another mini-split unit for that area. A large sliding door would let me get mowers, motorcycles, even my compact utility tractor in there for servicing in a heated and air conditioned environment.

Those are just my suggestions. On the other hand, if it is going to be mostly just storage, disregard all the above. ;-)

Oh, yeah! Put a walk-through door in BOTH ends. You do NOT want to be in the back, have a fire break out in the front, and not be able to get out. Go with steel doors and deadbolt locks to supplement the knobs and they will be as secure, or more so, than your overhead door.

Good luck, and enjoy your new shop. I built 3 years ago and absolutely love mine. The best part is the toilet. I can even leave the lid up!

 

[blksn8k]

Your are lucky to be at the planning stage with a clean slate. I moved into a place, made a few changes, but didn't have the time or money to get the most out of it.
You didn't say how you were planning/designing the layout. Are you using some sort of CAD software? If not, I would suggest so. Another exercise I did in the design world was what I called the "paper doll". Draw individual scale size outlines of as many items as possible. Cut them out, and play around with moving them inside the scale size rectangle that will be the building. CAD is easier, but....
I also drew my tractor and equipment roughly to scale (in CAD) and played around backing up the tractor with an implement attached to figure out maneuvering room and access. Turned out I could nest my baler in the opening of my haybine draw arm, and I easily gained back 80-90 square feet.
The pit sounds like a great idea, as would a hoist. Also a wash bay. All would require some thought ahead of your pouring the flooring
Good luck!

I did something similar. I purchased a 40x50 full steel building including the internal framework and then used the manufacturer's blueprints to create a 3D model of the building in AutoCad. Believe it or not, it includes every nut and bolt. I used that to inventory all of the materials when they arrived and it was a huge help during building erection if for no other reason than visualization. That model also helped me identify parts that were manufactured incorrectly or missing and there were a few of both.

I also used the model to design the block wall foundation and drainage system for the building. After the building was erected I then used the model to design the corner office space and second story loft within the building. And, yes, like you, I also created "blocks" that represented all of the vehicles that would eventually be stored there as well as equipment like a sandblasting cabinet and upright air compressor. When I did the wiring I used the model to verify routing and lengths of wire as well as placement of outlets and lighting fixtures.

 

[mx842]

When I built my house back in 1992 I had then put in a 400 amp service because I knew one day I was going to have a shop out back. About 15 years later I started my shop. I started with a pole barn style but later decided to frame up the inside walls so I could add insulation. That's probably not the way to go about it especially now because of the exploding price of lumber these days......thanks Jo.
It took me another 15 years to finish doing it a hundred dollars at a time. I finally had it up with all my old stuff I had been collecting over the years and it really looked good. This past December the 10th it caught fire and burned to the ground along with pretty much everything I owned.
The moral of this story is do a lot of thinking about how you finish your shop and what you put on the inside walls. Nobody ever thinks that the hard work and money you put into something like this will ever be gone in just a couple hours. There is no amount of fire-retardant paint you can put on wood walls will protect you from total loss once a fire has had time to get going good. Sheet rock is slightly better because you take away a lot of the combustible material on the walls and you would maybe have a little more time to get the fire department there. Even then if something like your car or truck was to catch fire in the building sheet rock will only last so long, once it gets hot enough in there the sheetrock will crumble to the floor exposing the framing underneath.
In my new building I am putting medal siding on the inside walls. That's still not a 100% cure that everything will be safe in case of a fire. If something like a car or truck was to catch fire on the inside all that medal siding would hold a lot of heat and become a giant furnace keeping all the heat on the inside until everything is no longer usable. That's what happened to my building once that OSB got to going it was no stopping it.
Another thing is to make sure you have enough insurance coverage just in case something like that would someday happen.
twinotterpilot has a good point too. Sit down and draw up plan as to just where you want everything you have to go. Then allow yourself a few hundred extra sq. ft for future stuff you are sure to pick up along the way. Drawing it out on paper will tell you right off if the 1000 or 2000 sq ft building is going to be enough. I've found out that no matter how big you build it there still won't be enough space.

 

[MRTOES]

I just started building my house, and all but decided to wait on the shop. My wife and parents are on me about going ahead and building it while the house is going up.... They have a point, I really want a shop and need indoor storage for several things. We are planning on this being our retirement spot. I'm 40 and My wife is 44 so it needs to last for many decades.

My dream was a 50x60x12 red iron framed building. With inflation driving the price of the house so high, not to mention the shop price, that is not in the cards. Now hoping for at least 40x50x12. I know I can get 40' wood trusses, potentially 45'.

Proposed shop use:

1) Honey house/ bathroom with shower/ kitchenette for canning etc. This will likely be a framed out room 15x15 - 20x20 no set size but large enough for chores with A/C and ideally set up like an efficiency apartment. Initially I will rough in the plumbing for the shop construction and build out the rest over time.
2) General shop related tasks. light/ medium wood work, wrenching on random stuff, tractors, mowers, etc.
3) storage/ I bought a big shelf system from Bed Bath and Beyond when they went under. 12' tall and probably 40' long. lightish duty. no pallets but great for totes.
4) Motorcycle, mower and additional vehicle parking.

Proposed style.

A) Red iron frame - too expensive
B) Post Frame - Wood in the ground, Rot, Termites etc. Longevity? Much worry.
C) Stick built - Looks like potentially the best option for me.

I plan on getting the pad ready myslef, hiring concrete finishers, hiring framers and hiring out the metal skin installation. Planning on pulling power to a sub-panel from the house and wiring myself. I don't know anything about foundation requirements. Would prefer to add any required footing type things and pour all at once as opposed to digging footers, laying blocks, filling, then pouring the slab. There is probably around a 2' fall on the pad location so I would need to build up with the fill I set aside from my pond. It's clay and Shale, it was almost all shale but when I dug it back out for the driveway lots of the shale has broken down into clay.

I might could do a lot of the framing myself but I don't know the requirements for door headers and anchoring to the floor etc. Basically I'm not scared of hard work and can follow a plan but I don't have the knowledge for what's required.

Planning on 2 man doors and 2-3 overhead doors. At least one of those being about 18' wide.

Please help me with this. I know there have probably been several threads about this exact thing so links would likely also be helpful.

Sounds like you got it all. Be sure to get that concrete floor strong enough for a lift in your future. Use fiber reinforced concrete and rebar. I found out that having an older washer and dryer around for both shop rags and house emergencies was a life saver. Small water heaters are not that expensive.

 

[hummertom]

I'm starting to design my wife's shop/she shed, going with 12x32 with a 6' porch on one end and man door, double door on long side facing house. Porch end will have 10x12 clean room, carpet or tile, windows, insulated walls and door into larger workshop, window AC, baseboard htr. Power from house to 60amp subpanel. Shop area wood floors all insulated, dust collector, comp air lines. My wife does a LOT of crafts, some dirty some clean. Remember, happy wife happy life. My shop just starting design.

 

[OzarkChris]

I just started building my house, and all but decided to wait on the shop. My wife and parents are on me about going ahead and building it while the house is going up.... They have a point, I really want a shop and need indoor storage for several things. We are planning on this being our retirement spot. I'm 40 and My wife is 44 so it needs to last for many decades.

My dream was a 50x60x12 red iron framed building. With inflation driving the price of the house so high, not to mention the shop price, that is not in the cards. Now hoping for at least 40x50x12. I know I can get 40' wood trusses, potentially 45'.

Proposed shop use:

1) Honey house/ bathroom with shower/ kitchenette for canning etc. This will likely be a framed out room 15x15 - 20x20 no set size but large enough for chores with A/C and ideally set up like an efficiency apartment. Initially I will rough in the plumbing for the shop construction and build out the rest over time.
2) General shop related tasks. light/ medium wood work, wrenching on random stuff, tractors, mowers, etc.
3) storage/ I bought a big shelf system from Bed Bath and Beyond when they went under. 12' tall and probably 40' long. lightish duty. no pallets but great for totes.
4) Motorcycle, mower and additional vehicle parking.

Proposed style.

A) Red iron frame - too expensive
B) Post Frame - Wood in the ground, Rot, Termites etc. Longevity? Much worry.
C) Stick built - Looks like potentially the best option for me.

I plan on getting the pad ready myslef, hiring concrete finishers, hiring framers and hiring out the metal skin installation. Planning on pulling power to a sub-panel from the house and wiring myself. I don't know anything about foundation requirements. Would prefer to add any required footing type things and pour all at once as opposed to digging footers, laying blocks, filling, then pouring the slab. There is probably around a 2' fall on the pad location so I would need to build up with the fill I set aside from my pond. It's clay and Shale, it was almost all shale but when I dug it back out for the driveway lots of the shale has broken down into clay.

I might could do a lot of the framing myself but I don't know the requirements for door headers and anchoring to the floor etc. Basically I'm not scared of hard work and can follow a plan but I don't have the knowledge for what's required.

Planning on 2 man doors and 2-3 overhead doors. At least one of those being about 18' wide.

Please help me with this. I know there have probably been several threads about this exact thing so links would likely also be helpful.

Not sure if this will help, but we are in the process of building a 50 x 100 x 10 for a barndo - 1st 30' is garage. We've been looking at all metal and things like a pole barn that is wood structure with metal sides & roof (post frame). We can get this 50' wide in either fashion - at least our rep said he can do 50' cross beams/trusses. For our purposes we would rather have a flat ceiling (not vaulted), cost wise if we go metal, we almost have to do a stick built under the roof to get that. Adding a mezzanine is extremely expensive unless you are having a 2nd floor - we aren't.

As far as the foundation, we've found out that for this location an 18 x 18" footer will suffice - this is based on snow load and frost line. Rather than trying to make generic round footers for each post/beam we've decided to pour the footers the entire length of the bldg e.g., 2 ea 18"w x 18"d footers (14" deeper than rest of the concrete pour) that will be poured during the foundation pour. Obviously, this will have rebar throughout.

As far as the rot/termite issue we will Not bury the post (if we go wood), we will use the Simpson type post hangers or Ramset or drill & set bolts after concrete has setup. We also have at least 2.5' of extra concrete around all 4 sides, outside of the bldg. This should show any termite, carpenter ants, etc trails so we can nip it in the bud quickly, however where the house is being placed is quite dry so we shouldn't have to worry about it too much.

Total cost of the cement work - including 2 part colored epoxy over entire foundation ~60k. Metal bldg ~60k delivered (not erected). Post Frame quote still hasn't arrived but they sat it should be cheaper than metal bldg.

Hope this helps!